From jkennedy at rzg.mpg.de Fri Feb 3 11:31:00 2012 From: jkennedy at rzg.mpg.de (john alan kennedy) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2012 17:31:00 +0100 Subject: [UR-WG] Strorage Usage Record - use cases and requirements... Message-ID: <4F2C0BC4.9080408@rzg.mpg.de> Hi All, I have added some use cases and requirements to the UR-WG wiki. I have tried to go through previous meeting notes and e-mails and to be honest I guess I did a bit or reverse engineering from the StAR document to end up with a set which I hope reflects much of what we have talked about in the past. I think if we can defined the use-cases and requirements we can better define what we aim to do with the UR and also we'll know when we've done it. This isn't supposed to be a definitive list, it's just a start and things can easily be dropped and added. So please feel free to add (and correct). I also included some things which we have discussed but that are probably (or definitely) out of scope. I have done this so we can discuss why they are out of scope and tag them as such. I think it will help us if later in the day we can point to this - we've discussed these topics so others may ask and we can then say. "yep we talked about that and it's considered to be out of scope because ..." cheers (and bon weekend) John https://forge.ogf.org/sf/wiki/do/viewPage/projects.ur-wg/wiki/UseCases -- +------------------------------------------------------------+ |Dr. John Alan Kennedy Rechenzentrum Garching (RZG) | |Mail: jkennedy at rzg.mpg.de Boltzmannstrasse 2 | |Phone: +49 89 3299 2694 85748 Garching | |Fax: +49 89 3299 1301 | +------------------------------------------------------------+ From andrea.cristofori at cnaf.infn.it Mon Feb 6 08:21:37 2012 From: andrea.cristofori at cnaf.infn.it (Andrea Cristofori) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2012 14:21:37 +0100 Subject: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 07/02/2012 In-Reply-To: <4F1ED998.4040301@cnaf.infn.it> References: <4F1ED998.4040301@cnaf.infn.it> Message-ID: <4F2FD3E1.5020107@cnaf.infn.it> Dear all, I and Jon prepared the agenda for next OGF: - New charter + Timeline - Info doc from EMI - Wrap up from last OGF - UR2.0 - Requirements - Use cases - Record blocks under consideration - Fields under consideration -AOB We can discuss tomorrow about it and if we need an extra session. Tomorrow agenda will follow the actions from last phone conference: - All: write some use cases on the wiki - All: check the attributes on the wiki page and give comments - All: comments on the document: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1953002/StAR-OGF-info-doc-v1.docx - CA & JKN: split the common block in two parts (recordidentity and useridentity) and add some attributes (issuer, authorization type, wheretheusercamefrom,...) - CA & JKN: write a preliminary agenda for next OGF - JKN: change the title on the document to reflect the fact that it is not an OGF document and circulate it before next meeting Regards, Andrea and Jon On 01/24/2012 05:17 PM, Andrea Cristofori wrote: > Dear all, > > here is a list of actions for next phone meeting > > - All: write some use cases on the wiki > - All: check the attributes on the wiki page and give comments > - All: comments on the document: > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1953002/StAR-OGF-info-doc-v1.docx > - CA & JKN: split the common block in two parts (recordidentity and > useridentity) and add some attributes (issuer, authorization type, > wheretheusercamefrom,...) > - CA & JKN: write a preliminary agenda for next OGF > - JKN: change the title on the document to reflect the fact that it is > not an OGF document and circulate it before next meeting > > If I forgot something please feel free to add. > > Cheers, > Andrea > -- > ur-wg mailing list > ur-wg at ogf.org > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg -- Andrea Cristofori INFN-CNAF Viale Berti Pichat 6/2 40127 Bologna Italy Tel. : +39-051-6092920 Skype: andrea-cnaf From mike.jones at manchester.ac.uk Tue Feb 7 08:05:15 2012 From: mike.jones at manchester.ac.uk (Mike Jones) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 13:05:15 +0000 Subject: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 07/02/2012 In-Reply-To: <4F2FD3E1.5020107@cnaf.infn.it> References: <4F1ED998.4040301@cnaf.infn.it> <4F2FD3E1.5020107@cnaf.infn.it> Message-ID: <201202071305.18773.mike.jones@manchester.ac.uk> Folks, My apologies, I will not be able to make the meeting today due to being roped into an NGS Collaboration Board meeting. I've managed to put one "use case" in the wiki, but... I will say that there seems to be usecases that are better dealt with using either some monitoring protocol or some advertising protocol. Remember that URs may not work their way through the system for a time. There is no requirement to provide URs in a timely fashion. To try to make it so would be out of scope for a UR spec. Status information within a UR will be of limited value, except when exploring usage in a historical context. Mike On Monday 06 February 2012 13:21:37 Andrea Cristofori wrote: > Dear all, > > I and Jon prepared the agenda for next OGF: > > - New charter + Timeline > - Info doc from EMI > - Wrap up from last OGF > - UR2.0 > - Requirements > - Use cases > - Record blocks under consideration > - Fields under consideration > -AOB > > > We can discuss tomorrow about it and if we need an extra session. > Tomorrow agenda will follow the actions from last phone conference: > > - All: write some use cases on the wiki > - All: check the attributes on the wiki page and give comments > - All: comments on the document: > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1953002/StAR-OGF-info-doc-v1.docx > - CA & JKN: split the common block in two parts (recordidentity and > useridentity) and add some attributes (issuer, authorization type, > wheretheusercamefrom,...) > - CA & JKN: write a preliminary agenda for next OGF > - JKN: change the title on the document to reflect the fact that it is > not an OGF document and circulate it before next meeting > > > Regards, > Andrea and Jon > > On 01/24/2012 05:17 PM, Andrea Cristofori wrote: > > Dear all, > > > > here is a list of actions for next phone meeting > > > > - All: write some use cases on the wiki > > - All: check the attributes on the wiki page and give comments > > - All: comments on the document: > > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1953002/StAR-OGF-info-doc-v1.docx > > - CA & JKN: split the common block in two parts (recordidentity and > > useridentity) and add some attributes (issuer, authorization type, > > wheretheusercamefrom,...) > > - CA & JKN: write a preliminary agenda for next OGF > > - JKN: change the title on the document to reflect the fact that it is > > not an OGF document and circulate it before next meeting > > > > If I forgot something please feel free to add. > > > > Cheers, > > Andrea -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2787 bytes Desc: not available URL: From john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk Tue Feb 7 08:25:19 2012 From: john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk (john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 13:25:19 +0000 Subject: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 07/02/2012 In-Reply-To: <201202071305.18773.mike.jones@manchester.ac.uk> References: <4F1ED998.4040301@cnaf.infn.it> <4F2FD3E1.5020107@cnaf.infn.it> <201202071305.18773.mike.jones@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF1CB509C0@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> My apologies too. I am in a WLCG Meeting all day. In response to Mike's point on standards taking time; yesbut once a document exists then it is useful right away because sites/systems/infrastructure can choose to follow it and then we benefit from real world feedback on what we have proposed. John > -----Original Message----- > From: ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org [mailto:ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org] On Behalf Of > Mike Jones > Sent: 07 February 2012 13:05 > To: ur-wg at ogf.org > Subject: Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 07/02/2012 > > > Folks, > > My apologies, I will not be able to make the meeting today due to being > roped into an NGS Collaboration Board meeting. > > I've managed to put one "use case" in the wiki, but... > > I will say that there seems to be usecases that are better dealt with > using either some monitoring protocol or some advertising protocol. > > Remember that URs may not work their way through the system for a time. > There is no requirement to provide URs in a timely fashion. To try to > make it so would be out of scope for a UR spec. > > Status information within a UR will be of limited value, except when > exploring usage in a historical context. > > Mike > > On Monday 06 February 2012 13:21:37 Andrea Cristofori wrote: > > Dear all, > > > > I and Jon prepared the agenda for next OGF: > > > > - New charter + Timeline > > - Info doc from EMI > > - Wrap up from last OGF > > - UR2.0 > > - Requirements > > - Use cases > > - Record blocks under consideration > > - Fields under consideration > > -AOB > > > > > > We can discuss tomorrow about it and if we need an extra session. > > Tomorrow agenda will follow the actions from last phone conference: > > > > - All: write some use cases on the wiki > > - All: check the attributes on the wiki page and give comments > > - All: comments on the document: > > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1953002/StAR-OGF-info-doc-v1.docx > > - CA & JKN: split the common block in two parts (recordidentity and > > useridentity) and add some attributes (issuer, authorization type, > > wheretheusercamefrom,...) > > - CA & JKN: write a preliminary agenda for next OGF > > - JKN: change the title on the document to reflect the fact that it > is > > not an OGF document and circulate it before next meeting > > > > > > Regards, > > Andrea and Jon > > > > On 01/24/2012 05:17 PM, Andrea Cristofori wrote: > > > Dear all, > > > > > > here is a list of actions for next phone meeting > > > > > > - All: write some use cases on the wiki > > > - All: check the attributes on the wiki page and give comments > > > - All: comments on the document: > > > http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1953002/StAR-OGF-info-doc-v1.docx > > > - CA & JKN: split the common block in two parts (recordidentity and > > > useridentity) and add some attributes (issuer, authorization type, > > > wheretheusercamefrom,...) > > > - CA & JKN: write a preliminary agenda for next OGF > > > - JKN: change the title on the document to reflect the fact that it > > > is not an OGF document and circulate it before next meeting > > > > > > If I forgot something please feel free to add. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Andrea -- Scanned by iCritical. From andrea.cristofori at cnaf.infn.it Tue Feb 7 11:32:37 2012 From: andrea.cristofori at cnaf.infn.it (Andrea Cristofori) Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2012 17:32:37 +0100 Subject: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012 Message-ID: <4F315225.1030105@cnaf.infn.it> Dear all, Most of the phone conference has been focused on the comments on the use cases provided by John AK. We commented directly inline on the wiki. Feel free to add more Use cases if not present. We will comment them during next phone conference. We also agreed in asking for a second time slot during OGF (if possible the same day) and divide the agenda in two parts and JKN will look for information on how to make the document he circulated the 25th public. The actions for next meeting are the following: - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the agenda on OGF website - JKN: make public the document - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, grid, local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two use cases: 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the used and unused storage space that I have on a storage resource. - Thus I can see how much headroom I have. All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the requested storage I have on a specific resource and the allocated/reserved resources I have on that resource. - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently have only 80TB at my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required Cheers Andrea -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j.k.nilsen at fys.uio.no Mon Feb 13 05:25:36 2012 From: j.k.nilsen at fys.uio.no (Jon Kerr Nilsen) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 11:25:36 +0100 Subject: [UR-WG] =?windows-1252?q?EMI_StAR_=96_Definition_of_a_Storage_Acc?= =?windows-1252?q?ounting_Record_-_ready_for_public_comments?= References: <7361895.1328899397392.JavaMail.sf-admin@forge.ogf.org> Message-ID: <6F24A4C5-780E-400C-89CF-22A007B10292@fys.uio.no> Hi, The StAR document has been submitted and entered a 30-day public comment period, see https://forge.ogf.org/sf/go/artf6532 Please distribute to interested parties for reading and comments. cheers, Jon Begin forwarded message: > From: SourceForge Administrator > Subject: Artifact changed: EMI StAR ? Definition of a Storage Accounting Record > Date: 10. februar 2012 19:43:17 GMT+01:00 > To: Jon Kerr Nilsen > Reply-To: artf6532 at forge.ogf.org > > > artf6532: EMI StAR ? Definition of a Storage Accounting Record > > Modified on 02/10/2012 by Greg Newby > Status: - New: "Public Comment Period" Old: "AD Review" > Assigned To: - New: "Joel Replogle" Old: "Andre Merzky" > resolution: - New: "" Old: "Accepted" > > Comment was added: > Tanks for this. It will next go to 30-day public comment. Please ask WG members and other constituents to read & provide comments. > > Respond by visiting: > https://forge.ogf.org/sf/go/artf6532 > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Artifact details:- > > Project: Editor > Tracker: Submit OGF Draft > > Group: Management > Status: Public Comment Period > Category: Informational > Priority: 3 > Assigned To: Joel Replogle > resolution: > > Description: In this informational document the EU-project European Middleware Initiative (EMI) describes a storage accounting record (StAR), defined to reflect practical, financial and legal requirements of storage location, usage and space and data flow. The defined record might be the base for a standardized schema or an extension of an existing record like the OGF UR and this document is intended as information to be taken as input for incorporating storage resources into the OGF UR. > > The described definition is agreed upon and will be implemented by the storage elements within EMI > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 1437 bytes Desc: not available URL: From andrea.cristofori at cnaf.infn.it Mon Feb 20 12:07:32 2012 From: andrea.cristofori at cnaf.infn.it (Andrea Cristofori) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 18:07:32 +0100 Subject: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012 In-Reply-To: <4F315225.1030105@cnaf.infn.it> References: <4F315225.1030105@cnaf.infn.it> Message-ID: <4F427DD4.1040900@cnaf.infn.it> Dear all, Here is our scheduled session (90 minutes) for next OGF: https://www.egi.eu/indico/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=821 Cheers, Andrea On 02/07/2012 05:32 PM, Andrea Cristofori wrote: > Dear all, > > Most of the phone conference has been focused on the comments on the > use cases provided by John AK. We commented directly inline on the > wiki. Feel free to add more Use cases if not present. We will comment > them during next phone conference. We also agreed in asking for a > second time slot during OGF (if possible the same day) and divide the > agenda in two parts and JKN will look for information on how to make > the document he circulated the 25th public. The actions for next > meeting are the following: > > - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the > agenda on OGF website > - JKN: make public the document > - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, grid, > local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) > > > > Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two use cases: > > 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the used and unused > storage space that I have on a storage resource. > - Thus I can see how much headroom I have. > > All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required > > 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the requested storage > I have on a specific resource and the allocated/reserved resources > I have on that resource. > - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently have only 80TB > at my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). > > All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required > > > Cheers > Andrea > > > -- > ur-wg mailing list > ur-wg at ogf.org > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg -- Andrea Cristofori INFN-CNAF Viale Berti Pichat 6/2 40127 Bologna Italy Tel. : +39-051-6092920 Skype: andrea-cnaf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk Mon Feb 20 12:22:04 2012 From: john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk (john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 17:22:04 +0000 Subject: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012 In-Reply-To: <4F427DD4.1040900@cnaf.infn.it> References: <4F315225.1030105@cnaf.infn.it> <4F427DD4.1040900@cnaf.infn.it> Message-ID: <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF268F714F@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> Andrea, are you sure you sent the correct link? From: ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org [mailto:ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org] On Behalf Of Andrea Cristofori Sent: 20 February 2012 17:08 To: ur-wg at ogf.org Subject: Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012 Dear all, Here is our scheduled session (90 minutes) for next OGF: https://www.egi.eu/indico/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=821 Cheers, Andrea On 02/07/2012 05:32 PM, Andrea Cristofori wrote: Dear all, Most of the phone conference has been focused on the comments on the use cases provided by John AK. We commented directly inline on the wiki. Feel free to add more Use cases if not present. We will comment them during next phone conference. We also agreed in asking for a second time slot during OGF (if possible the same day) and divide the agenda in two parts and JKN will look for information on how to make the document he circulated the 25th public. The actions for next meeting are the following: - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the agenda on OGF website - JKN: make public the document - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, grid, local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two use cases: 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the used and unused storage space that I have on a storage resource. - Thus I can see how much headroom I have. All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the requested storage I have on a specific resource and the allocated/reserved resources I have on that resource. - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently have only 80TB at my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required Cheers Andrea -- ur-wg mailing list ur-wg at ogf.org https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg -- Andrea Cristofori INFN-CNAF Viale Berti Pichat 6/2 40127 Bologna Italy Tel. : +39-051-6092920 Skype: andrea-cnaf -- Scanned by iCritical. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrea.cristofori at cnaf.infn.it Mon Feb 20 12:26:17 2012 From: andrea.cristofori at cnaf.infn.it (Andrea Cristofori) Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 18:26:17 +0100 Subject: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012 In-Reply-To: <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF268F714F@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> References: <4F315225.1030105@cnaf.infn.it> <4F427DD4.1040900@cnaf.infn.it> <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF268F714F@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4F428239.9020201@cnaf.infn.it> Hi John, I was in a hurry... sorry wrong link. Here is the correct one: http://www.ogf.org/gf/event_schedule/index.php?id=2413 Andrea On 02/20/2012 06:22 PM, john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk wrote: > > Andrea, are you sure you sent the correct link? > > *From:*ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org [mailto:ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org] *On Behalf > Of *Andrea Cristofori > *Sent:* 20 February 2012 17:08 > *To:* ur-wg at ogf.org > *Subject:* Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012 > > Dear all, > > Here is our scheduled session (90 minutes) for next OGF: > > https://www.egi.eu/indico/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=821 > > Cheers, > Andrea > > > > > On 02/07/2012 05:32 PM, Andrea Cristofori wrote: > > Dear all, > > Most of the phone conference has been focused on the comments on the > use cases provided by John AK. We commented directly inline on the > wiki. Feel free to add more Use cases if not present. We will comment > them during next phone conference. We also agreed in asking for a > second time slot during OGF (if possible the same day) and divide the > agenda in two parts and JKN will look for information on how to make > the document he circulated the 25th public. The actions for next > meeting are the following: > > - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the > agenda on OGF website > - JKN: make public the document > - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, grid, > local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) > > > > Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two use cases: > > 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the used and unused > storage space that I have on a storage resource. > - Thus I can see how much headroom I have. > > All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required > > 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the requested storage > I have on a specific resource and the allocated/reserved resources > I have on that resource. > - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently have only 80TB > at my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). > > All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required > > > Cheers > Andrea > > > > -- > ur-wg mailing list > ur-wg at ogf.org > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg > > > > > -- > Andrea Cristofori > INFN-CNAF > Viale Berti Pichat 6/2 > 40127 Bologna > Italy > Tel. : +39-051-6092920 > Skype: andrea-cnaf > > -- > Scanned by iCritical. > > -- Andrea Cristofori INFN-CNAF Viale Berti Pichat 6/2 40127 Bologna Italy Tel. : +39-051-6092920 Skype: andrea-cnaf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jkennedy at rzg.mpg.de Tue Feb 21 02:35:13 2012 From: jkennedy at rzg.mpg.de (john alan kennedy) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 08:35:13 +0100 Subject: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012 In-Reply-To: <4F427DD4.1040900@cnaf.infn.it> References: <4F315225.1030105@cnaf.infn.it> <4F427DD4.1040900@cnaf.infn.it> Message-ID: <4F434931.3030802@rzg.mpg.de> Hi Andrea, I am sorry but I can't make the phone meeting today. I'll try to do my homework and send an example grid record - I should learn something by doing this anyway. cheers johnk On 02/20/2012 06:07 PM, Andrea Cristofori wrote: > Dear all, > > Here is our scheduled session (90 minutes) for next OGF: > > https://www.egi.eu/indico/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=821 > > Cheers, > Andrea > > > > > On 02/07/2012 05:32 PM, Andrea Cristofori wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> Most of the phone conference has been focused on the comments on the >> use cases provided by John AK. We commented directly inline on the >> wiki. Feel free to add more Use cases if not present. We will comment >> them during next phone conference. We also agreed in asking for a >> second time slot during OGF (if possible the same day) and divide the >> agenda in two parts and JKN will look for information on how to make >> the document he circulated the 25th public. The actions for next >> meeting are the following: >> >> - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the >> agenda on OGF website >> - JKN: make public the document >> - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, grid, >> local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) >> >> >> >> Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two use >> cases: >> >> 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the used and >> unused storage space that I have on a storage resource. >> - Thus I can see how much headroom I have. >> >> All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required >> >> 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the requested >> storage I have on a specific resource and the >> allocated/reserved resources I have on that resource. >> - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently have only >> 80TB at my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). >> >> All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required >> >> >> Cheers >> Andrea >> >> >> -- >> ur-wg mailing list >> ur-wg at ogf.org >> https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg > > > -- > Andrea Cristofori > INFN-CNAF > Viale Berti Pichat 6/2 > 40127 Bologna > Italy > Tel. : +39-051-6092920 > Skype: andrea-cnaf > > > -- > ur-wg mailing list > ur-wg at ogf.org > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg -- +------------------------------------------------------------+ |Dr. John Alan Kennedy Rechenzentrum Garching (RZG) | |Mail: jkennedy at rzg.mpg.de Boltzmannstrasse 2 | |Phone: +49 89 3299 2694 85748 Garching | |Fax: +49 89 3299 1301 | +------------------------------------------------------------+ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j.k.nilsen at fys.uio.no Tue Feb 21 03:08:25 2012 From: j.k.nilsen at fys.uio.no (Jon Kerr Nilsen) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 09:08:25 +0100 Subject: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 CET In-Reply-To: <4F315225.1030105@cnaf.infn.it> References: <4F315225.1030105@cnaf.infn.it> Message-ID: <04AC240A-8B61-4726-B8F9-FE19C98A99D6@fys.uio.no> Hi all, As John AK just reminded me, the next phone meeting is today. We'll go through the actions mentioned below and possibly make some new ones. Just to try out something new, I suggest we try the Skype conference room in Lund (which is starting to get stable now). So you can call in to Place: Skype Skype contact: lund.room.1 Phone bridge: +46462884608 cheers, Jon On 7. feb. 2012, at 17:32, Andrea Cristofori wrote: > Dear all, > > Most of the phone conference has been focused on the comments on the use cases provided by John AK. We commented directly inline on the wiki. Feel free to add more Use cases if not present. We will comment them during next phone conference. We also agreed in asking for a second time slot during OGF (if possible the same day) and divide the agenda in two parts and JKN will look for information on how to make the document he circulated the 25th public. The actions for next meeting are the following: > > - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the agenda on OGF website > - JKN: make public the document > - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, grid, local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) > > > > Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two use cases: > > As a project I would like to be able to view the used and unused storage space that I have on a storage resource. > - Thus I can see how much headroom I have. > All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required > As a project I would like to be able to view the requested storage I have on a specific resource and the allocated/reserved resources I have on that resource. > - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently have only 80TB at my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). > All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required > > > Cheers > Andrea > -- > ur-wg mailing list > ur-wg at ogf.org > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 1437 bytes Desc: not available URL: From andrea.cristofori at cnaf.infn.it Tue Feb 21 03:15:05 2012 From: andrea.cristofori at cnaf.infn.it (Andrea Cristofori) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 09:15:05 +0100 Subject: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 CET In-Reply-To: <04AC240A-8B61-4726-B8F9-FE19C98A99D6@fys.uio.no> References: <4F315225.1030105@cnaf.infn.it> <04AC240A-8B61-4726-B8F9-FE19C98A99D6@fys.uio.no> Message-ID: <4F435289.9060004@cnaf.infn.it> Dear all, Sorry for the short notice but neither I or Jon can make it to today phone conference. We would like then to postpone it to next week (same day, same time). About today actions Jon already published the document and I got an answer for the slot at OGF: http://www.ogf.org/gf/event_schedule/index.php?id=2413 Again apologies. Cheers, Andrea On 02/21/2012 09:08 AM, Jon Kerr Nilsen wrote: > Hi all, > > As John AK just reminded me, the next phone meeting is today. We'll go > through the actions mentioned below and possibly make some new ones. > Just to try out something new, I suggest we try the Skype conference > room in Lund (which is starting to get stable now). So you can call in to > > Place: Skype > Skype contact: lund.room.1 > Phone bridge: +46462884608 > > cheers, > Jon > > On 7. feb. 2012, at 17:32, Andrea Cristofori wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> Most of the phone conference has been focused on the comments on the >> use cases provided by John AK. We commented directly inline on the >> wiki. Feel free to add more Use cases if not present. We will comment >> them during next phone conference. We also agreed in asking for a >> second time slot during OGF (if possible the same day) and divide the >> agenda in two parts and JKN will look for information on how to make >> the document he circulated the 25th public. The actions for next >> meeting are the following: >> >> - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the >> agenda on OGF website >> - JKN: make public the document >> - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, grid, >> local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) >> >> >> >> Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two use >> cases: >> >> 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the used and unused >> storage space that I have on a storage resource. >> - Thus I can see how much headroom I have. >> >> All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required >> >> 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the requested >> storage I have on a specific resource and the allocated/reserved >> resources I have on that resource. >> - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently have only 80TB >> at my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). >> >> All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required >> >> >> Cheers >> Andrea >> -- >> ur-wg mailing list >> ur-wg at ogf.org >> https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg > > > > -- > ur-wg mailing list > ur-wg at ogf.org > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg -- Andrea Cristofori INFN-CNAF Viale Berti Pichat 6/2 40127 Bologna Italy Tel. : +39-051-6092920 Skype: andrea-cnaf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ralph.mueller-pfefferkorn at tu-dresden.de Tue Feb 21 04:02:00 2012 From: ralph.mueller-pfefferkorn at tu-dresden.de (Ralph Mueller-Pfefferkorn) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 10:02:00 +0100 Subject: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 CET In-Reply-To: <4F435289.9060004@cnaf.infn.it> References: <4F315225.1030105@cnaf.infn.it> <04AC240A-8B61-4726-B8F9-FE19C98A99D6@fys.uio.no> <4F435289.9060004@cnaf.infn.it> Message-ID: <4F435D88.5070405@tu-dresden.de> Hi, next Tuesday is fine for me. Cheers, Ralph Andrea Cristofori wrote on 21.02.2012 09:15: > > Dear all, > > Sorry for the short notice but neither I or Jon can make it to today > phone conference. We would like then to postpone it to next week (same > day, same time). > About today actions Jon already published the document and I got an > answer for the slot at OGF: > > http://www.ogf.org/gf/event_schedule/index.php?id=2413 > > Again apologies. > > Cheers, > Andrea > > > > > On 02/21/2012 09:08 AM, Jon Kerr Nilsen wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> As John AK just reminded me, the next phone meeting is today. We'll go >> through the actions mentioned below and possibly make some new ones. >> Just to try out something new, I suggest we try the Skype conference >> room in Lund (which is starting to get stable now). So you can call in to >> >> Place: Skype >> Skype contact: lund.room.1 >> Phone bridge: +46462884608 >> >> cheers, >> Jon >> >> On 7. feb. 2012, at 17:32, Andrea Cristofori wrote: >> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> Most of the phone conference has been focused on the comments on the >>> use cases provided by John AK. We commented directly inline on the >>> wiki. Feel free to add more Use cases if not present. We will comment >>> them during next phone conference. We also agreed in asking for a >>> second time slot during OGF (if possible the same day) and divide the >>> agenda in two parts and JKN will look for information on how to make >>> the document he circulated the 25th public. The actions for next >>> meeting are the following: >>> >>> - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the >>> agenda on OGF website >>> - JKN: make public the document >>> - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, grid, >>> local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) >>> >>> >>> >>> Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two use >>> cases: >>> >>> 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the used and unused >>> storage space that I have on a storage resource. >>> - Thus I can see how much headroom I have. >>> >>> All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required >>> >>> 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the requested >>> storage I have on a specific resource and the allocated/reserved >>> resources I have on that resource. >>> - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently have only 80TB >>> at my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). >>> >>> All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required >>> >>> >>> Cheers >>> Andrea >>> -- >>> ur-wg mailing list >>> ur-wg at ogf.org >>> https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg >> >> >> >> -- >> ur-wg mailing list >> ur-wg at ogf.org >> https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg > > > -- > Andrea Cristofori > INFN-CNAF > Viale Berti Pichat 6/2 > 40127 Bologna > Italy > Tel. : +39-051-6092920 > Skype: andrea-cnaf > > > > -- > ur-wg mailing list > ur-wg at ogf.org > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4751 bytes Desc: S/MIME Kryptografische Unterschrift URL: From john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk Tue Feb 21 04:42:02 2012 From: john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk (john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 09:42:02 +0000 Subject: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 CET In-Reply-To: <4F435289.9060004@cnaf.infn.it> References: <4F315225.1030105@cnaf.infn.it> <04AC240A-8B61-4726-B8F9-FE19C98A99D6@fys.uio.no> <4F435289.9060004@cnaf.infn.it> Message-ID: <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF268F7583@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> I'll be in Taiwan next week UTC+8 so I may or may not attend. Depends if anything official is happening that evening and if I can stay awake and if Skype works. I'll add the WLCG storage use case to the wiki before then. I must stress that this is important to WLCG and that we consider space allocated to a VO as 'usage' as it is not available to others and is to be recorded just like space occupied by files. i.e. Not monitoring any more than recording the existence of files in monitoring. John From: ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org [mailto:ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org] On Behalf Of Andrea Cristofori Sent: 21 February 2012 08:15 To: Jon Kerr Nilsen Cc: ur-wg at ogf.org Subject: Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 CET Dear all, Sorry for the short notice but neither I or Jon can make it to today phone conference. We would like then to postpone it to next week (same day, same time). About today actions Jon already published the document and I got an answer for the slot at OGF: http://www.ogf.org/gf/event_schedule/index.php?id=2413 Again apologies. Cheers, Andrea On 02/21/2012 09:08 AM, Jon Kerr Nilsen wrote: Hi all, As John AK just reminded me, the next phone meeting is today. We'll go through the actions mentioned below and possibly make some new ones. Just to try out something new, I suggest we try the Skype conference room in Lund (which is starting to get stable now). So you can call in to Place: Skype Skype contact: lund.room.1 Phone bridge: +46462884608 cheers, Jon On 7. feb. 2012, at 17:32, Andrea Cristofori wrote: Dear all, Most of the phone conference has been focused on the comments on the use cases provided by John AK. We commented directly inline on the wiki. Feel free to add more Use cases if not present. We will comment them during next phone conference. We also agreed in asking for a second time slot during OGF (if possible the same day) and divide the agenda in two parts and JKN will look for information on how to make the document he circulated the 25th public. The actions for next meeting are the following: - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the agenda on OGF website - JKN: make public the document - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, grid, local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two use cases: 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the used and unused storage space that I have on a storage resource. - Thus I can see how much headroom I have. All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the requested storage I have on a specific resource and the allocated/reserved resources I have on that resource. - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently have only 80TB at my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required Cheers Andrea -- ur-wg mailing list ur-wg at ogf.org https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg -- ur-wg mailing list ur-wg at ogf.org https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg -- Andrea Cristofori INFN-CNAF Viale Berti Pichat 6/2 40127 Bologna Italy Tel. : +39-051-6092920 Skype: andrea-cnaf -- Scanned by iCritical. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mike.jones at manchester.ac.uk Tue Feb 21 05:55:35 2012 From: mike.jones at manchester.ac.uk (Mike Jones via mobile) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 10:55:35 +0000 Subject: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 CET In-Reply-To: <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF268F7583@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> References: <4F315225.1030105@cnaf.infn.it> <04AC240A-8B61-4726-B8F9-FE19C98A99D6@fys.uio.no> <4F435289.9060004@cnaf.infn.it> <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF268F7583@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> Message-ID: To follow up on John's WLCG usecase: I agree that VO space allocated over a period of time _is_ a usage. BUT VO allocation at any instant is not. That said, the dynamics of any allocation/usage needs to be recorded to be able to answer the question "over period X did the allocation always satisfy: instantaneous_storage( used+available) > N (dimension:bytes)?" John, does that last clause satisfy WLCG? Mike -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk wrote: I?ll be in Taiwan next week UTC+8 so I may or may not attend. Depends if anything official is happening that evening and if I can stay awake and if Skype works. I?ll add the WLCG storage use case to the wiki before then. I must stress that this is important to WLCG and that we consider space allocated to a VO as ?usage? as it is not available to others and is to be recorded just like space occupied by files. i.e. Not monitoring any more than recording the existence of files in monitoring. John From: ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org [mailto:ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org] On Behalf Of Andrea Cristofori Sent: 21 February 2012 08:15 To: Jon Kerr Nilsen Cc: ur-wg at ogf.org Subject: Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 CET Dear all, Sorry for the short notice but neither I or Jon can make it to today phone conference. We would like then to postpone it to next week (same day, same time). About today actions Jon already published the document and I got an answer for the slot at OGF: http://www.ogf.org/gf/event_schedule/index.php?id=2413 Again apologies. Cheers, Andrea On 02/21/2012 09:08 AM, Jon Kerr Nilsen wrote: Hi all, As John AK just reminded me, the next phone meeting is today. We'll go through the actions mentioned below and possibly make some new ones. Just to try out something new, I suggest we try the Skype conference room in Lund (which is starting to get stable now). So you can call in to Place: Skype Skype contact: lund.room.1 Phone bridge: +46462884608 cheers, Jon On 7. feb. 2012, at 17:32, Andrea Cristofori wrote: Dear all, Most of the phone conference has been focused on the comments on the use cases provided by John AK. We commented directly inline on the wiki. Feel free to add more Use cases if not present. We will comment them during next phone conference. We also agreed in asking for a second time slot during OGF (if possible the same day) and divide the agenda in two parts and JKN will look for information on how to make the document he circulated the 25th public. The actions for next meeting are the following: - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the agenda on OGF website - JKN: make public the document - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, grid, local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two use cases: As a project I would like to be able to view the used and unused storage space that I have on a storage resource. - Thus I can see how much headroom I have. All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required As a project I would like to be able to view the requested storage I have on a specific resource and the allocated/reserved resources I have on that resource. - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently have only 80TB at my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required Cheers Andrea -- ur-wg mailing list ur-wg at ogf.org https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg -- ur-wg mailing list ur-wg at ogf.org https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg -- Andrea Cristofori INFN-CNAF Viale Berti Pichat 6/2 40127 Bologna Italy Tel. : +39-051-6092920 Skype: andrea-cnaf -- Scanned by iCritical. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ralph.mueller-pfefferkorn at tu-dresden.de Tue Feb 21 08:15:43 2012 From: ralph.mueller-pfefferkorn at tu-dresden.de (Ralph Mueller-Pfefferkorn) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 14:15:43 +0100 Subject: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 CET In-Reply-To: References: <4F315225.1030105@cnaf.infn.it> <04AC240A-8B61-4726-B8F9-FE19C98A99D6@fys.uio.no> <4F435289.9060004@cnaf.infn.it> <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF268F7583@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4F4398FF.5000001@tu-dresden.de> Hi, Mike Jones via mobile wrote on 21.02.2012 11:55: > To follow up on John's WLCG usecase: I agree that VO space allocated > over a period of time _is_ a usage. BUT VO allocation at any instant is > not. That said, the dynamics of any allocation/usage needs to be > recorded to be able to answer the question "over period X did the > allocation always satisfy: instantaneous_storage( used+available) > N > (dimension:bytes)?" A possible implementation could be to have records for the usage and records stating the allocated space such that it is possible to do such a comparison. E.g. (in the StAR scheme) Allocation: ... host.example.org pool-003 allocated 14728 ... Usage: ... host.example.org pool-003 1728 ... This would mean that the analysis of the records has to be careful in not mixing the different meanings of the records. Cheers, Ralph > John, does that last clause satisfy WLCG? > > Mike > -- > Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > > john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk wrote: > > I?ll be in Taiwan next week UTC+8 so I may or may not attend. > Depends if anything official is happening that evening and if I can > stay awake and if Skype works. > > I?ll add the WLCG storage use case to the wiki before then. I must > stress that this is important to WLCG and that we consider space > allocated to a VO as ?usage? as it is not available to others and is > to be recorded just like space occupied by files. i.e. Not > monitoring any more than recording the existence of files in > monitoring. > > John > > *From:*ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org [mailto:ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org] *On > Behalf Of *Andrea Cristofori > *Sent:* 21 February 2012 08:15 > *To:* Jon Kerr Nilsen > *Cc:* ur-wg at ogf.org > *Subject:* Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, > 15:00 CET > > > Dear all, > > Sorry for the short notice but neither I or Jon can make it to today > phone conference. We would like then to postpone it to next week > (same day, same time). > About today actions Jon already published the document and I got an > answer for the slot at OGF: > > http://www.ogf.org/gf/event_schedule/index.php?id=2413 > > Again apologies. > > Cheers, > Andrea > > > > > On 02/21/2012 09:08 AM, Jon Kerr Nilsen wrote: > > Hi all, > > As John AK just reminded me, the next phone meeting is today. We'll > go through the actions mentioned below and possibly make some new > ones. Just to try out something new, I suggest we try the Skype > conference room in Lund (which is starting to get stable now). So > you can call in to > > Place: Skype > Skype contact: lund.room.1 > Phone bridge: +46462884608 > > cheers, > > Jon > > On 7. feb. 2012, at 17:32, Andrea Cristofori wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > Most of the phone conference has been focused on the comments on the > use cases provided by John AK. We commented directly inline on the > wiki. Feel free to add more Use cases if not present. We will > comment them during next phone conference. We also agreed in asking > for a second time slot during OGF (if possible the same day) and > divide the agenda in two parts and JKN will look for information on > how to make the document he circulated the 25th public. The actions > for next meeting are the following: > > - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the > agenda on OGF website > - JKN: make public the document > - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, > grid, local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) > > > > Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two use > cases: > > 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the used and unused > storage space that I have on a storage resource. > - Thus I can see how much headroom I have. > > All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required > > 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the requested > storage I have on a specific resource and the allocated/reserved > resources I have on that resource. > - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently have only > 80TB at my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). > > All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required > > > Cheers > Andrea > > -- > ur-wg mailing list > ur-wg at ogf.org > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg > > > > > -- > > ur-wg mailing list > > ur-wg at ogf.org > > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg > > > > > -- > > Andrea Cristofori > > INFN-CNAF > > Viale Berti Pichat 6/2 > > 40127 Bologna > > Italy > > Tel. :+39-051-6092920 > > Skype: andrea-cnaf > > > -- > Scanned by iCritical. > > > > > -- > ur-wg mailing list > ur-wg at ogf.org > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4751 bytes Desc: S/MIME Kryptografische Unterschrift URL: From ralph.mueller-pfefferkorn at tu-dresden.de Tue Feb 21 08:21:07 2012 From: ralph.mueller-pfefferkorn at tu-dresden.de (Ralph Mueller-Pfefferkorn) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 14:21:07 +0100 Subject: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 CET In-Reply-To: <4F4398FF.5000001@tu-dresden.de> References: <4F315225.1030105@cnaf.infn.it> <04AC240A-8B61-4726-B8F9-FE19C98A99D6@fys.uio.no> <4F435289.9060004@cnaf.infn.it> <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF268F7583@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> <4F4398FF.5000001@tu-dresden.de> Message-ID: <4F439A43.4070709@tu-dresden.de> Just got a use case for storage monitoring (not accounting): the OGF Wiki server. Wanted to add something and got: Error saving wiki page: No space left on device :) Cheers, Ralph Ralph Mueller-Pfefferkorn wrote on 21.02.2012 14:15: > Hi, > > Mike Jones via mobile wrote on 21.02.2012 11:55: >> To follow up on John's WLCG usecase: I agree that VO space allocated >> over a period of time _is_ a usage. BUT VO allocation at any instant is >> not. That said, the dynamics of any allocation/usage needs to be >> recorded to be able to answer the question "over period X did the >> allocation always satisfy: instantaneous_storage( used+available)> N >> (dimension:bytes)?" > A possible implementation could be to have records for the usage and > records stating the allocated space such that it is possible to do such > a comparison. > E.g. (in the StAR scheme) > > Allocation: > ... > host.example.org > pool-003 > allocated > 14728 > ... > > Usage: > ... > host.example.org > pool-003 > 1728 > ... > > This would mean that the analysis of the records has to be careful in > not mixing the different meanings of the records. > > Cheers, > Ralph > > >> John, does that last clause satisfy WLCG? >> >> Mike >> -- >> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >> >> john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk wrote: >> >> I?ll be in Taiwan next week UTC+8 so I may or may not attend. >> Depends if anything official is happening that evening and if I can >> stay awake and if Skype works. >> >> I?ll add the WLCG storage use case to the wiki before then. I must >> stress that this is important to WLCG and that we consider space >> allocated to a VO as ?usage? as it is not available to others and is >> to be recorded just like space occupied by files. i.e. Not >> monitoring any more than recording the existence of files in >> monitoring. >> >> John >> >> *From:*ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org [mailto:ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org] *On >> Behalf Of *Andrea Cristofori >> *Sent:* 21 February 2012 08:15 >> *To:* Jon Kerr Nilsen >> *Cc:* ur-wg at ogf.org >> *Subject:* Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, >> 15:00 CET >> >> >> Dear all, >> >> Sorry for the short notice but neither I or Jon can make it to today >> phone conference. We would like then to postpone it to next week >> (same day, same time). >> About today actions Jon already published the document and I got an >> answer for the slot at OGF: >> >> http://www.ogf.org/gf/event_schedule/index.php?id=2413 >> >> Again apologies. >> >> Cheers, >> Andrea >> >> >> >> >> On 02/21/2012 09:08 AM, Jon Kerr Nilsen wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> As John AK just reminded me, the next phone meeting is today. We'll >> go through the actions mentioned below and possibly make some new >> ones. Just to try out something new, I suggest we try the Skype >> conference room in Lund (which is starting to get stable now). So >> you can call in to >> >> Place: Skype >> Skype contact: lund.room.1 >> Phone bridge: +46462884608 >> >> cheers, >> >> Jon >> >> On 7. feb. 2012, at 17:32, Andrea Cristofori wrote: >> >> >> >> Dear all, >> >> Most of the phone conference has been focused on the comments on the >> use cases provided by John AK. We commented directly inline on the >> wiki. Feel free to add more Use cases if not present. We will >> comment them during next phone conference. We also agreed in asking >> for a second time slot during OGF (if possible the same day) and >> divide the agenda in two parts and JKN will look for information on >> how to make the document he circulated the 25th public. The actions >> for next meeting are the following: >> >> - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the >> agenda on OGF website >> - JKN: make public the document >> - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, >> grid, local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) >> >> >> >> Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two use >> cases: >> >> 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the used and unused >> storage space that I have on a storage resource. >> - Thus I can see how much headroom I have. >> >> All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required >> >> 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the requested >> storage I have on a specific resource and the allocated/reserved >> resources I have on that resource. >> - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently have only >> 80TB at my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). >> >> All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required >> >> >> Cheers >> Andrea >> >> -- >> ur-wg mailing list >> ur-wg at ogf.org >> https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> ur-wg mailing list >> >> ur-wg at ogf.org >> >> https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Andrea Cristofori >> >> INFN-CNAF >> >> Viale Berti Pichat 6/2 >> >> 40127 Bologna >> >> Italy >> >> Tel. :+39-051-6092920 >> >> Skype: andrea-cnaf >> >> >> -- >> Scanned by iCritical. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ur-wg mailing list >> ur-wg at ogf.org >> https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg > > > > -- > ur-wg mailing list > ur-wg at ogf.org > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4751 bytes Desc: S/MIME Kryptografische Unterschrift URL: From john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk Tue Feb 21 09:07:07 2012 From: john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk (john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 14:07:07 +0000 Subject: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 CET In-Reply-To: References: <4F315225.1030105@cnaf.infn.it> <04AC240A-8B61-4726-B8F9-FE19C98A99D6@fys.uio.no> <4F435289.9060004@cnaf.infn.it> <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF268F7583@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> Message-ID: <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF268F9A11@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> Mike, you keep coming back to time integration. I think that once we decided on sampling rather than evaluating integrals then all we have is a series of observations and there are a variety of conclusions we can draw from them. None of them contain the word ?always? since we can never know what happens between observations. Once one has a collection of records then different grids, projects, infrastructures may apply different procedures. I am not against the durationtime/elapsedtime argument but I won?t be attempting to construct time integrals from it. I will not be treating periods of time not covered by records as unused or empty space. I will be calculating min/max/mean over a time period with perhaps some weighting if the end-user projects or sites feel that this isn?t the full story. I might come back and propose a summary UR for passing this information around. I think that for many people desperate for storage accounting these simple metrics will be enough. If they are not then we can reconvene and change/extend the UR. John From: Mike Jones via mobile [mailto:mike.jones at manchester.ac.uk] Sent: 21 February 2012 10:56 To: Gordon, John (STFC,RAL,ESC); andrea.cristofori at cnaf.infn.it; j.k.nilsen at fys.uio.no Cc: ur-wg at ogf.org Subject: Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 CET To follow up on John's WLCG usecase: I agree that VO space allocated over a period of time _is_ a usage. BUT VO allocation at any instant is not. That said, the dynamics of any allocation/usage needs to be recorded to be able to answer the question "over period X did the allocation always satisfy: instantaneous_storage( used+available) > N (dimension:bytes)?" John, does that last clause satisfy WLCG? Mike -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk wrote: I?ll be in Taiwan next week UTC+8 so I may or may not attend. Depends if anything official is happening that evening and if I can stay awake and if Skype works. I?ll add the WLCG storage use case to the wiki before then. I must stress that this is important to WLCG and that we consider space allocated to a VO as ?usage? as it is not available to others and is to be recorded just like space occupied by files. i.e. Not monitoring any more than recording the existence of files in monitoring. John From: ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org [mailto:ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org] On Behalf Of Andrea Cristofori Sent: 21 February 2012 08:15 To: Jon Kerr Nilsen Cc: ur-wg at ogf.org Subject: Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 CET Dear all, Sorry for the short notice but neither I or Jon can make it to today phone conference. We would like then to postpone it to next week (same day, same time). About today actions Jon already published the document and I got an answer for the slot at OGF: http://www.ogf.org/gf/event_schedule/index.php?id=2413 Again apologies. Cheers, Andrea On 02/21/2012 09:08 AM, Jon Kerr Nilsen wrote: Hi all, As John AK just reminded me, the next phone meeting is today. We'll go through the actions mentioned below and possibly make some new ones. Just to try out something new, I suggest we try the Skype conference room in Lund (which is starting to get stable now). So you can call in to Place: Skype Skype contact: lund.room.1 Phone bridge: +46462884608 cheers, Jon On 7. feb. 2012, at 17:32, Andrea Cristofori wrote: Dear all, Most of the phone conference has been focused on the comments on the use cases provided by John AK. We commented directly inline on the wiki. Feel free to add more Use cases if not present. We will comment them during next phone conference. We also agreed in asking for a second time slot during OGF (if possible the same day) and divide the agenda in two parts and JKN will look for information on how to make the document he circulated the 25th public. The actions for next meeting are the following: - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the agenda on OGF website - JKN: make public the document - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, grid, local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two use cases: 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the used and unused storage space that I have on a storage resource. - Thus I can see how much headroom I have. All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the requested storage I have on a specific resource and the allocated/reserved resources I have on that resource. - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently have only 80TB at my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required Cheers Andrea -- ur-wg mailing list ur-wg at ogf.org https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg -- ur-wg mailing list ur-wg at ogf.org https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg -- Andrea Cristofori INFN-CNAF Viale Berti Pichat 6/2 40127 Bologna Italy Tel. : +39-051-6092920 Skype: andrea-cnaf -- Scanned by iCritical. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk Tue Feb 21 11:29:27 2012 From: john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk (john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 16:29:27 +0000 Subject: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 CET In-Reply-To: <4F4398FF.5000001@tu-dresden.de> References: <4F315225.1030105@cnaf.infn.it> <04AC240A-8B61-4726-B8F9-FE19C98A99D6@fys.uio.no> <4F435289.9060004@cnaf.infn.it> <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF268F7583@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> <4F4398FF.5000001@tu-dresden.de> Message-ID: <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF268F9A0E@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> The risk implied by your 'careful' is why I prefer both quantities to be in the same UR. Then each observation is unique and one needn't mess around trying to reconcile time differences and their implications. John > -----Original Message----- > From: ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org [mailto:ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org] On Behalf Of > Ralph Mueller-Pfefferkorn > Sent: 21 February 2012 13:16 > Cc: ur-wg at ogf.org > Subject: Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, > 15:00 CET > > Hi, > > Mike Jones via mobile wrote on 21.02.2012 11:55: > > To follow up on John's WLCG usecase: I agree that VO space allocated > > over a period of time _is_ a usage. BUT VO allocation at any instant > is > > not. That said, the dynamics of any allocation/usage needs to be > > recorded to be able to answer the question "over period X did the > > allocation always satisfy: instantaneous_storage( used+available) > N > > (dimension:bytes)?" > A possible implementation could be to have records for the usage and > records stating the allocated space such that it is possible to do such > a comparison. > E.g. (in the StAR scheme) > > Allocation: > ... > host.example.org > pool-003 > allocated > 14728 > ... > > Usage: > ... > host.example.org > pool-003 > 1728 > ... > > This would mean that the analysis of the records has to be careful in > not mixing the different meanings of the records. > > Cheers, > Ralph > > > > John, does that last clause satisfy WLCG? > > > > Mike > > -- > > Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > > > > john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk wrote: > > > > I?ll be in Taiwan next week UTC+8 so I may or may not attend. > > Depends if anything official is happening that evening and if I > can > > stay awake and if Skype works. > > > > I?ll add the WLCG storage use case to the wiki before then. I > must > > stress that this is important to WLCG and that we consider space > > allocated to a VO as ?usage? as it is not available to others and > is > > to be recorded just like space occupied by files. i.e. Not > > monitoring any more than recording the existence of files in > > monitoring. > > > > John > > > > *From:*ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org [mailto:ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org] *On > > Behalf Of *Andrea Cristofori > > *Sent:* 21 February 2012 08:15 > > *To:* Jon Kerr Nilsen > > *Cc:* ur-wg at ogf.org > > *Subject:* Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on > 21.02.2012, > > 15:00 CET > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > Sorry for the short notice but neither I or Jon can make it to > today > > phone conference. We would like then to postpone it to next week > > (same day, same time). > > About today actions Jon already published the document and I got > an > > answer for the slot at OGF: > > > > http://www.ogf.org/gf/event_schedule/index.php?id=2413 > > > > Again apologies. > > > > Cheers, > > Andrea > > > > > > > > > > On 02/21/2012 09:08 AM, Jon Kerr Nilsen wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > As John AK just reminded me, the next phone meeting is today. > We'll > > go through the actions mentioned below and possibly make some new > > ones. Just to try out something new, I suggest we try the Skype > > conference room in Lund (which is starting to get stable now). So > > you can call in to > > > > Place: Skype > > Skype contact: lund.room.1 > > Phone bridge: +46462884608 > > > > cheers, > > > > Jon > > > > On 7. feb. 2012, at 17:32, Andrea Cristofori wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > Most of the phone conference has been focused on the comments on > the > > use cases provided by John AK. We commented directly inline on > the > > wiki. Feel free to add more Use cases if not present. We will > > comment them during next phone conference. We also agreed in > asking > > for a second time slot during OGF (if possible the same day) and > > divide the agenda in two parts and JKN will look for information > on > > how to make the document he circulated the 25th public. The > actions > > for next meeting are the following: > > > > - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the > > agenda on OGF website > > - JKN: make public the document > > - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, > > grid, local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) > > > > > > > > Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two > use > > cases: > > > > 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the used and > unused > > storage space that I have on a storage resource. > > - Thus I can see how much headroom I have. > > > > All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required > > > > 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the requested > > storage I have on a specific resource and the > allocated/reserved > > resources I have on that resource. > > - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently have only > > 80TB at my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). > > > > All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required > > > > > > Cheers > > Andrea > > > > -- > > ur-wg mailing list > > ur-wg at ogf.org > > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > ur-wg mailing list > > > > ur-wg at ogf.org > > > > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Andrea Cristofori > > > > INFN-CNAF > > > > Viale Berti Pichat 6/2 > > > > 40127 Bologna > > > > Italy > > > > Tel. :+39-051-6092920 > > > > Skype: andrea-cnaf > > > > > > -- > > Scanned by iCritical. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ur-wg mailing list > > ur-wg at ogf.org > > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg From mike.jones at manchester.ac.uk Tue Feb 21 13:47:47 2012 From: mike.jones at manchester.ac.uk (Mike Jones) Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2012 18:47:47 +0000 Subject: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 CET In-Reply-To: <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF268F9A11@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> References: <4F315225.1030105@cnaf.infn.it> <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF268F9A11@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> Message-ID: <201202211847.52397.mike.jones@manchester.ac.uk> John, I always come back to time integration because once the record is written it cannot be misinterpreted; it is by definition correct even if it is not accurate [that is important]. I understand the inaccuracies of sampling, but the rules of said sampling are specific to the resource, are probably restricted by tooling and must ultimately form part of their service description. > Once one has a collection of records then different grids, projects, > infrastructures may apply different procedures. It is precisely this variation that I am trying to eliminate. Resource consumers and providers are the primary entities concerned with generation and consumption of URs. Grids, brokering systems, infrastructures need not ever be present and as such may make only secondary use of these records, if permitted. It should certainly not be these secondary relying parties that interpret these data with assumptions, for instance, on how regularly a record was cut. If you insist on having usage records only define an instantaneous value then it becomes difficult to understand how much the resource was used: You then have 3 choices to retrieve useful information: 1, to requires an infinite set of instantaneous URs [clearly stupid] 2, to gain the set of all URs produced and assumes static between each [requires complex safeguards], 3, rely on the grid infrastructure, that it has some universal way of interpreting this [wrong domain: assumes infrastructure policy, e.g. set by EGI not OGF]. In conclusion, UR must be able to cope with both sampled data and known (continuous) data usage. It must be expressed within the usage record so it cannot in itself be taken out of context. It must therefore contain integrated usage data. I have, up until now, attempted realise what I think you require as incidental information extra to usage but I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that what you really want is an allocation record not a usage record. An allocation record would allow you to subsequently generate a usage record given a set of sampling rules. Mike On Tuesday 21 February 2012 14:07:07 john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk wrote: > Mike, you keep coming back to time integration. I think that once we > decided on sampling rather than evaluating integrals then all we have is a > series of observations and there are a variety of conclusions we can draw > from them. None of them contain the word ?always? since we can never know > what happens between observations. > > Once one has a collection of records then different grids, projects, > infrastructures may apply different procedures. I am not against the > durationtime/elapsedtime argument but I won?t be attempting to construct > time integrals from it. I will not be treating periods of time not covered > by records as unused or empty space. I will be calculating min/max/mean > over a time period with perhaps some weighting if the end-user projects or > sites feel that this isn?t the full story. I might come back and propose a > summary UR for passing this information around. I think that for many > people desperate for storage accounting these simple metrics will be > enough. If they are not then we can reconvene and change/extend the UR. > > John > > From: Mike Jones via mobile [mailto:mike.jones at manchester.ac.uk] > Sent: 21 February 2012 10:56 > To: Gordon, John (STFC,RAL,ESC); andrea.cristofori at cnaf.infn.it; > j.k.nilsen at fys.uio.no Cc: ur-wg at ogf.org > Subject: Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 > CET > > To follow up on John's WLCG usecase: I agree that VO space allocated over a > period of time _is_ a usage. BUT VO allocation at any instant is not. That > said, the dynamics of any allocation/usage needs to be recorded to be able > to answer the question "over period X did the allocation always satisfy: > instantaneous_storage( used+available) > N (dimension:bytes)?" John, does > that last clause satisfy WLCG? > > Mike > -- > Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk wrote: > I?ll be in Taiwan next week UTC+8 so I may or may not attend. Depends if > anything official is happening that evening and if I can stay awake and if > Skype works. > > I?ll add the WLCG storage use case to the wiki before then. I must stress > that this is important to WLCG and that we consider space allocated to a > VO as ?usage? as it is not available to others and is to be recorded just > like space occupied by files. i.e. Not monitoring any more than recording > the existence of files in monitoring. > > John > > > From: ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org [mailto:ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org] On Behalf Of > Andrea Cristofori Sent: 21 February 2012 08:15 > To: Jon Kerr Nilsen > Cc: ur-wg at ogf.org > Subject: Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 > CET > > > Dear all, > > Sorry for the short notice but neither I or Jon can make it to today phone > conference. We would like then to postpone it to next week (same day, same > time). About today actions Jon already published the document and I got an > answer for the slot at OGF: > > http://www.ogf.org/gf/event_schedule/index.php?id=2413 > > Again apologies. > > Cheers, > Andrea > > > > > On 02/21/2012 09:08 AM, Jon Kerr Nilsen wrote: > Hi all, > > As John AK just reminded me, the next phone meeting is today. We'll go > through the actions mentioned below and possibly make some new ones. Just > to try out something new, I suggest we try the Skype conference room in > Lund (which is starting to get stable now). So you can call in to > > Place: Skype > Skype contact: lund.room.1 > Phone bridge: +46462884608 > > cheers, > Jon > > On 7. feb. 2012, at 17:32, Andrea Cristofori wrote: > > Dear all, > > Most of the phone conference has been focused on the comments on the use > cases provided by John AK. We commented directly inline on the wiki. Feel > free to add more Use cases if not present. We will comment them during > next phone conference. We also agreed in asking for a second time slot > during OGF (if possible the same day) and divide the agenda in two parts > and JKN will look for information on how to make the document he > circulated the 25th public. The actions for next meeting are the > following: > > - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the agenda on > OGF website - JKN: make public the document > - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, grid, > local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) > > > > Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two use cases: > > 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the used and unused > storage space that I have on a storage resource. - Thus I can see how much > headroom I have. > All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required > > 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the requested storage I > have on a specific resource and the allocated/reserved resources I have on > that resource. - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently have > only 80TB at my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). All: seems to be more > monitoring Comments from John are required > > > Cheers > Andrea > -- > ur-wg mailing list > ur-wg at ogf.org > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg > > > > > -- > > ur-wg mailing list > > ur-wg at ogf.org > > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg > > > > -- > > Andrea Cristofori > > INFN-CNAF > > Viale Berti Pichat 6/2 > > 40127 Bologna > > Italy > > Tel. : +39-051-6092920 > > Skype: andrea-cnaf > > > -- > Scanned by iCritical. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2787 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jkennedy at rzg.mpg.de Wed Feb 22 04:34:39 2012 From: jkennedy at rzg.mpg.de (john alan kennedy) Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 10:34:39 +0100 Subject: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 CET In-Reply-To: <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF268F9A11@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> References: <4F315225.1030105@cnaf.infn.it> <04AC240A-8B61-4726-B8F9-FE19C98A99D6@fys.uio.no> <4F435289.9060004@cnaf.infn.it> <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF268F7583@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF268F9A11@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4F44B6AF.1090503@rzg.mpg.de> Hi John, I understand why you want the allocated resources and personally have nothing against us having an optional field for it. 14728 50000 and I agree that this should be in the same record. I do however feel that a UR should cover a period of time and not just one point in time. I would argue that it is the job of the sensor or even better the storage system to be able to provide this information. The UR is there primarily to describe this information which can then be used for accounting/billing. We talked briefly in the last tele-con about a possible mis-usage of the record for a time duration of "0" which would then be a point in time record. I am starting to think we may need to actually tag the record as Point-in-Time (PiT) or Time-Integral(TI), but that's a secondary thought. The main point is that we could possibly cover both with the same record format... (or we may need two URs.). To be honest i need to think about it some more. The integral approach just seems more natural if we see accounting/billing as the end goal. * It fits better with the Compute UR (point-in-time doesn't fit at all). * You shouldn't need to do any mathematical gymnastics after the fact (no need to consider policies for min/max/avg usage) etc. * Missing records is something that you may have in Compute URs as well. I agree that in compute you are in a better situation since the missing records can often (if not always) be generated later since the batch system allow this - the storage systems are just weak here. It should be the job of the sensor software or storage system to be able to plug any gaps. That's what you do with Compute. Anyway, I think it's best to have your use-case written and then we can all discuss a bit more - prob best during the tele-con. cheers johnk On 02/21/2012 03:07 PM, john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk wrote: > > Mike, you keep coming back to time integration. I think that once we > decided on sampling rather than evaluating integrals then all we have > is a series of observations and there are a variety of conclusions we > can draw from them. None of them contain the word ?always? since we > can never know what happens between observations. > > Once one has a collection of records then different grids, projects, > infrastructures may apply different procedures. I am not against the > durationtime/elapsedtime argument but I won?t be attempting to > construct time integrals from it. I will not be treating periods of > time not covered by records as unused or empty space. I will be > calculating min/max/mean over a time period with perhaps some > weighting if the end-user projects or sites feel that this isn?t the > full story. I might come back and propose a summary UR for passing > this information around. I think that for many people desperate for > storage accounting these simple metrics will be enough. If they are > not then we can reconvene and change/extend the UR. > > John > > *From:*Mike Jones via mobile [mailto:mike.jones at manchester.ac.uk] > *Sent:* 21 February 2012 10:56 > *To:* Gordon, John (STFC,RAL,ESC); andrea.cristofori at cnaf.infn.it; > j.k.nilsen at fys.uio.no > *Cc:* ur-wg at ogf.org > *Subject:* Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, > 15:00 CET > > To follow up on John's WLCG usecase: I agree that VO space allocated > over a period of time _is_ a usage. BUT VO allocation at any instant > is not. That said, the dynamics of any allocation/usage needs to be > recorded to be able to answer the question "over period X did the > allocation always satisfy: instantaneous_storage( used+available) > N > (dimension:bytes)?" > John, does that last clause satisfy WLCG? > > Mike > -- > Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > > john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk wrote: > > I?ll be in Taiwan next week UTC+8 so I may or may not attend. Depends > if anything official is happening that evening and if I can stay awake > and if Skype works. > > I?ll add the WLCG storage use case to the wiki before then. I must > stress that this is important to WLCG and that we consider space > allocated to a VO as ?usage? as it is not available to others and is > to be recorded just like space occupied by files. i.e. Not monitoring > any more than recording the existence of files in monitoring. > > John > > *From:*ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org [mailto:ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org] *On Behalf > Of *Andrea Cristofori > *Sent:* 21 February 2012 08:15 > *To:* Jon Kerr Nilsen > *Cc:* ur-wg at ogf.org > *Subject:* Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, > 15:00 CET > > > Dear all, > > Sorry for the short notice but neither I or Jon can make it to today > phone conference. We would like then to postpone it to next week (same > day, same time). > About today actions Jon already published the document and I got an > answer for the slot at OGF: > > http://www.ogf.org/gf/event_schedule/index.php?id=2413 > > Again apologies. > > Cheers, > Andrea > > > > > On 02/21/2012 09:08 AM, Jon Kerr Nilsen wrote: > > Hi all, > > As John AK just reminded me, the next phone meeting is today. We'll go > through the actions mentioned below and possibly make some new ones. > Just to try out something new, I suggest we try the Skype conference > room in Lund (which is starting to get stable now). So you can call in to > > Place: Skype > Skype contact: lund.room.1 > Phone bridge: +46462884608 > > cheers, > > Jon > > On 7. feb. 2012, at 17:32, Andrea Cristofori wrote: > > Dear all, > > Most of the phone conference has been focused on the comments on the > use cases provided by John AK. We commented directly inline on the > wiki. Feel free to add more Use cases if not present. We will comment > them during next phone conference. We also agreed in asking for a > second time slot during OGF (if possible the same day) and divide the > agenda in two parts and JKN will look for information on how to make > the document he circulated the 25th public. The actions for next > meeting are the following: > > - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the > agenda on OGF website > - JKN: make public the document > - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, grid, > local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) > > > > Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two use cases: > > 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the used and unused > storage space that I have on a storage resource. > - Thus I can see how much headroom I have. > > All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required > > 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the requested > storage I have on a specific resource and the allocated/reserved > resources I have on that resource. > - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently have only > 80TB at my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). > > All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required > > > Cheers > Andrea > > -- > ur-wg mailing list > ur-wg at ogf.org > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg > > > > -- > ur-wg mailing list > ur-wg at ogf.org > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg > > > > -- > Andrea Cristofori > INFN-CNAF > Viale Berti Pichat 6/2 > 40127 Bologna > Italy > Tel. : +39-051-6092920 > Skype: andrea-cnaf > > -- > Scanned by iCritical. > > > -- > ur-wg mailing list > ur-wg at ogf.org > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg -- +------------------------------------------------------------+ |Dr. John Alan Kennedy Rechenzentrum Garching (RZG) | |Mail: jkennedy at rzg.mpg.de Boltzmannstrasse 2 | |Phone: +49 89 3299 2694 85748 Garching | |Fax: +49 89 3299 1301 | +------------------------------------------------------------+ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From j.k.nilsen at fys.uio.no Tue Feb 28 04:25:57 2012 From: j.k.nilsen at fys.uio.no (Jon Kerr Nilsen) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 10:25:57 +0100 Subject: [UR-WG] Reminder: Telcon meeting today 28.02.2012 @ 15:00 CET Message-ID: <90CFA16C-CAF2-4BFE-99E6-28E6F5B1FFF5@fys.uio.no> Hi all, As we postponed last week's meeting one week, the next meeting is today. We'll go through the actions mentioned below and possibly make some new ones. Just to try out something new, I suggest we try the Skype conference room in Lund (which is starting to get stable now). So you can call in to Place: Skype Skype contact: lund.room.1 Phone bridge: +46462884608 cheers, Jon Actions from last meeting: - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the agenda on OGF website - JKN: make public the document - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, grid, local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two use cases: As a project I would like to be able to view the used and unused storage space that I have on a storage resource. - Thus I can see how much headroom I have. All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required As a project I would like to be able to view the requested storage I have on a specific resource and the allocated/reserved resources I have on that resource. - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently have only 80TB at my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 1437 bytes Desc: not available URL: From john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk Tue Feb 28 04:58:08 2012 From: john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk (john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 09:58:08 +0000 Subject: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 CET In-Reply-To: <201202211847.52397.mike.jones@manchester.ac.uk> References: <4F315225.1030105@cnaf.infn.it> <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF268F9A11@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> <201202211847.52397.mike.jones@manchester.ac.uk> Message-ID: <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF26904810@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> Mike, I think you are way out of line here. As long ago as Munich OGF we discussed time integrals for UR and I thought we reached a consensus (well maybe everyone except you) that we could not ask storage systems to start evaluating integrals of storage usage for the use of UR. They don't do it and we would be asking them to implement journaling or to recalculate usage at every file interaction (or at least write/modify/delete). Just not on. I thought we all understood that this is a compromise for the pragmatic purpose of getting a UR soon that can be implemented in the real world. You seem to enjoy the tautological discussion of what accounting should be in the theoretical world. I just want to start writing records tomorrow, if not today. In the longer term maybe we make requirements against storage systems that they implement integrals as well as user level and i/o accounting. For now can we concentrate on agreeing something that can be implemented. John PS I'll try to call in. I'm in Taipei. > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Jones [mailto:mike.jones at manchester.ac.uk] > Sent: 21 February 2012 18:48 > To: Gordon, John (STFC,RAL,ESC) > Cc: andrea.cristofori at cnaf.infn.it; j.k.nilsen at fys.uio.no; ur- > wg at ogf.org > Subject: Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, > 15:00 CET > > > John, > > I always come back to time integration because once the record is > written it > cannot be misinterpreted; it is by definition correct even if it is not > accurate [that is important]. I understand the inaccuracies of > sampling, but > the rules of said sampling are specific to the resource, are probably > restricted by tooling and must ultimately form part of their service > description. > > > Once one has a collection of records then different grids, projects, > > infrastructures may apply different procedures. > > It is precisely this variation that I am trying to eliminate. Resource > consumers and providers are the primary entities concerned with > generation and > consumption of URs. Grids, brokering systems, infrastructures need not > ever be > present and as such may make only secondary use of these records, if > permitted. It should certainly not be these secondary relying parties > that > interpret these data with assumptions, for instance, on how regularly a > record > was cut. > > > If you insist on having usage records only define an instantaneous > value then > it becomes difficult to understand how much the resource was used: > You then have 3 choices to retrieve useful information: > 1, to requires an infinite set of instantaneous URs [clearly stupid] > 2, to gain the set of all URs produced and assumes static between each > [requires complex safeguards], > 3, rely on the grid infrastructure, that it has some universal way of > interpreting this [wrong domain: assumes infrastructure policy, e.g. > set by > EGI not OGF]. > > In conclusion, > UR must be able to cope with both sampled data and known (continuous) > data > usage. It must be expressed within the usage record so it cannot in > itself be > taken out of context. It must therefore contain integrated usage data. > > I have, up until now, attempted realise what I think you require as > incidental > information extra to usage but I am rapidly coming to the conclusion > that what > you really want is an allocation record not a usage record. An > allocation > record would allow you to subsequently generate a usage record given a > set of > sampling rules. > > Mike > > On Tuesday 21 February 2012 14:07:07 john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk wrote: > > Mike, you keep coming back to time integration. I think that once we > > decided on sampling rather than evaluating integrals then all we have > is a > > series of observations and there are a variety of conclusions we can > draw > > from them. None of them contain the word ?always? since we can never > know > > what happens between observations. > > > > Once one has a collection of records then different grids, projects, > > infrastructures may apply different procedures. I am not against the > > durationtime/elapsedtime argument but I won?t be attempting to > construct > > time integrals from it. I will not be treating periods of time not > covered > > by records as unused or empty space. I will be calculating > min/max/mean > > over a time period with perhaps some weighting if the end-user > projects or > > sites feel that this isn?t the full story. I might come back and > propose a > > summary UR for passing this information around. I think that for many > > people desperate for storage accounting these simple metrics will be > > enough. If they are not then we can reconvene and change/extend the > UR. > > > > John > > > > From: Mike Jones via mobile [mailto:mike.jones at manchester.ac.uk] > > Sent: 21 February 2012 10:56 > > To: Gordon, John (STFC,RAL,ESC); andrea.cristofori at cnaf.infn.it; > > j.k.nilsen at fys.uio.no Cc: ur-wg at ogf.org > > Subject: Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, > 15:00 > > CET > > > > To follow up on John's WLCG usecase: I agree that VO space allocated > over a > > period of time _is_ a usage. BUT VO allocation at any instant is not. > That > > said, the dynamics of any allocation/usage needs to be recorded to be > able > > to answer the question "over period X did the allocation always > satisfy: > > instantaneous_storage( used+available) > N (dimension:bytes)?" John, > does > > that last clause satisfy WLCG? > > > > Mike > > -- > > Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. > > john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk wrote: > > I?ll be in Taiwan next week UTC+8 so I may or may not attend. Depends > if > > anything official is happening that evening and if I can stay awake > and if > > Skype works. > > > > I?ll add the WLCG storage use case to the wiki before then. I must > stress > > that this is important to WLCG and that we consider space allocated > to a > > VO as ?usage? as it is not available to others and is to be recorded > just > > like space occupied by files. i.e. Not monitoring any more than > recording > > the existence of files in monitoring. > > > > John > > > > > > From: ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org [mailto:ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org] On Behalf > Of > > Andrea Cristofori Sent: 21 February 2012 08:15 > > To: Jon Kerr Nilsen > > Cc: ur-wg at ogf.org > > Subject: Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, > 15:00 > > CET > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > Sorry for the short notice but neither I or Jon can make it to today > phone > > conference. We would like then to postpone it to next week (same day, > same > > time). About today actions Jon already published the document and I > got an > > answer for the slot at OGF: > > > > http://www.ogf.org/gf/event_schedule/index.php?id=2413 > > > > Again apologies. > > > > Cheers, > > Andrea > > > > > > > > > > On 02/21/2012 09:08 AM, Jon Kerr Nilsen wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > As John AK just reminded me, the next phone meeting is today. We'll > go > > through the actions mentioned below and possibly make some new ones. > Just > > to try out something new, I suggest we try the Skype conference room > in > > Lund (which is starting to get stable now). So you can call in to > > > > Place: Skype > > Skype contact: lund.room.1 > > Phone bridge: +46462884608 > > > > cheers, > > Jon > > > > On 7. feb. 2012, at 17:32, Andrea Cristofori wrote: > > > > Dear all, > > > > Most of the phone conference has been focused on the comments on the > use > > cases provided by John AK. We commented directly inline on the wiki. > Feel > > free to add more Use cases if not present. We will comment them > during > > next phone conference. We also agreed in asking for a second time > slot > > during OGF (if possible the same day) and divide the agenda in two > parts > > and JKN will look for information on how to make the document he > > circulated the 25th public. The actions for next meeting are the > > following: > > > > - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the > agenda on > > OGF website - JKN: make public the document > > - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, grid, > > local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) > > > > > > > > Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two use > cases: > > > > 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the used and > unused > > storage space that I have on a storage resource. - Thus I can see how > much > > headroom I have. > > All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required > > > > 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the requested > storage I > > have on a specific resource and the allocated/reserved resources I > have on > > that resource. - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently > have > > only 80TB at my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). All: seems to be > more > > monitoring Comments from John are required > > > > > > Cheers > > Andrea > > -- > > ur-wg mailing list > > ur-wg at ogf.org > > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > ur-wg mailing list > > > > ur-wg at ogf.org > > > > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Andrea Cristofori > > > > INFN-CNAF > > > > Viale Berti Pichat 6/2 > > > > 40127 Bologna > > > > Italy > > > > Tel. : +39-051-6092920 > > > > Skype: andrea-cnaf > > > > > > -- > > Scanned by iCritical. From john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk Tue Feb 28 05:02:25 2012 From: john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk (john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 10:02:25 +0000 Subject: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 CET In-Reply-To: <4F44B6AF.1090503@rzg.mpg.de> References: <4F315225.1030105@cnaf.infn.it> <04AC240A-8B61-4726-B8F9-FE19C98A99D6@fys.uio.no> <4F435289.9060004@cnaf.infn.it> <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF268F7583@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF268F9A11@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> <4F44B6AF.1090503@rzg.mpg.de> Message-ID: <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF2690482E@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> John, thanks for your support. Your proposal is fine with me. I am happy to include a time period and my preference is for the time period since the last published measurement. One could then treat the measurement as an average over that time period. One could them combine records over a longer time period and rewrite the time period in a new record. I don?t think we can ask storage systems to deliver integrals. This has to be capable of use for a simple filesystem. John From: john alan kennedy [mailto:jkennedy at rzg.mpg.de] Sent: 22 February 2012 09:35 To: Gordon, John (STFC,RAL,ESC) Cc: mike.jones at manchester.ac.uk; andrea.cristofori at cnaf.infn.it; j.k.nilsen at fys.uio.no; ur-wg at ogf.org Subject: Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 CET Hi John, I understand why you want the allocated resources and personally have nothing against us having an optional field for it. 14728 50000 and I agree that this should be in the same record. I do however feel that a UR should cover a period of time and not just one point in time. I would argue that it is the job of the sensor or even better the storage system to be able to provide this information. The UR is there primarily to describe this information which can then be used for accounting/billing. We talked briefly in the last tele-con about a possible mis-usage of the record for a time duration of "0" which would then be a point in time record. I am starting to think we may need to actually tag the record as Point-in-Time (PiT) or Time-Integral(TI), but that's a secondary thought. The main point is that we could possibly cover both with the same record format... (or we may need two URs.). To be honest i need to think about it some more. The integral approach just seems more natural if we see accounting/billing as the end goal. * It fits better with the Compute UR (point-in-time doesn't fit at all). * You shouldn't need to do any mathematical gymnastics after the fact (no need to consider policies for min/max/avg usage) etc. * Missing records is something that you may have in Compute URs as well. I agree that in compute you are in a better situation since the missing records can often (if not always) be generated later since the batch system allow this - the storage systems are just weak here. It should be the job of the sensor software or storage system to be able to plug any gaps. That's what you do with Compute. Anyway, I think it's best to have your use-case written and then we can all discuss a bit more - prob best during the tele-con. cheers johnk On 02/21/2012 03:07 PM, john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk wrote: Mike, you keep coming back to time integration. I think that once we decided on sampling rather than evaluating integrals then all we have is a series of observations and there are a variety of conclusions we can draw from them. None of them contain the word ?always? since we can never know what happens between observations. Once one has a collection of records then different grids, projects, infrastructures may apply different procedures. I am not against the durationtime/elapsedtime argument but I won?t be attempting to construct time integrals from it. I will not be treating periods of time not covered by records as unused or empty space. I will be calculating min/max/mean over a time period with perhaps some weighting if the end-user projects or sites feel that this isn?t the full story. I might come back and propose a summary UR for passing this information around. I think that for many people desperate for storage accounting these simple metrics will be enough. If they are not then we can reconvene and change/extend the UR. John From: Mike Jones via mobile [mailto:mike.jones at manchester.ac.uk] Sent: 21 February 2012 10:56 To: Gordon, John (STFC,RAL,ESC); andrea.cristofori at cnaf.infn.it; j.k.nilsen at fys.uio.no Cc: ur-wg at ogf.org Subject: Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 CET To follow up on John's WLCG usecase: I agree that VO space allocated over a period of time _is_ a usage. BUT VO allocation at any instant is not. That said, the dynamics of any allocation/usage needs to be recorded to be able to answer the question "over period X did the allocation always satisfy: instantaneous_storage( used+available) > N (dimension:bytes)?" John, does that last clause satisfy WLCG? Mike -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk wrote: I?ll be in Taiwan next week UTC+8 so I may or may not attend. Depends if anything official is happening that evening and if I can stay awake and if Skype works. I?ll add the WLCG storage use case to the wiki before then. I must stress that this is important to WLCG and that we consider space allocated to a VO as ?usage? as it is not available to others and is to be recorded just like space occupied by files. i.e. Not monitoring any more than recording the existence of files in monitoring. John From: ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org [mailto:ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org] On Behalf Of Andrea Cristofori Sent: 21 February 2012 08:15 To: Jon Kerr Nilsen Cc: ur-wg at ogf.org Subject: Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 CET Dear all, Sorry for the short notice but neither I or Jon can make it to today phone conference. We would like then to postpone it to next week (same day, same time). About today actions Jon already published the document and I got an answer for the slot at OGF: http://www.ogf.org/gf/event_schedule/index.php?id=2413 Again apologies. Cheers, Andrea On 02/21/2012 09:08 AM, Jon Kerr Nilsen wrote: Hi all, As John AK just reminded me, the next phone meeting is today. We'll go through the actions mentioned below and possibly make some new ones. Just to try out something new, I suggest we try the Skype conference room in Lund (which is starting to get stable now). So you can call in to Place: Skype Skype contact: lund.room.1 Phone bridge: +46462884608 cheers, Jon On 7. feb. 2012, at 17:32, Andrea Cristofori wrote: Dear all, Most of the phone conference has been focused on the comments on the use cases provided by John AK. We commented directly inline on the wiki. Feel free to add more Use cases if not present. We will comment them during next phone conference. We also agreed in asking for a second time slot during OGF (if possible the same day) and divide the agenda in two parts and JKN will look for information on how to make the document he circulated the 25th public. The actions for next meeting are the following: - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the agenda on OGF website - JKN: make public the document - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, grid, local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two use cases: 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the used and unused storage space that I have on a storage resource. - Thus I can see how much headroom I have. All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the requested storage I have on a specific resource and the allocated/reserved resources I have on that resource. - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently have only 80TB at my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required Cheers Andrea -- ur-wg mailing list ur-wg at ogf.org https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg -- ur-wg mailing list ur-wg at ogf.org https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg -- Andrea Cristofori INFN-CNAF Viale Berti Pichat 6/2 40127 Bologna Italy Tel. : +39-051-6092920 Skype: andrea-cnaf -- Scanned by iCritical. -- ur-wg mailing list ur-wg at ogf.org https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg -- +------------------------------------------------------------+ |Dr. John Alan Kennedy Rechenzentrum Garching (RZG) | |Mail: jkennedy at rzg.mpg.de Boltzmannstrasse 2 | |Phone: +49 89 3299 2694 85748 Garching | |Fax: +49 89 3299 1301 | +------------------------------------------------------------+ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk Tue Feb 28 05:05:41 2012 From: john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk (john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 10:05:41 +0000 Subject: [UR-WG] Reminder: Telcon meeting today 28.02.2012 @ 15:00 CET In-Reply-To: <90CFA16C-CAF2-4BFE-99E6-28E6F5B1FFF5@fys.uio.no> References: <90CFA16C-CAF2-4BFE-99E6-28E6F5B1FFF5@fys.uio.no> Message-ID: <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF26904858@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> In this document you will find the WLCG Requirement defined. I won't have time to transcribe it to the wiki before today's meeting. https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/pub/LCG/WLCGCommonComputingReadinessChallenges/WLCG_GlueSchemaUsage-1.8.pdf From: ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org [mailto:ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org] On Behalf Of Jon Kerr Nilsen Sent: 28 February 2012 09:26 To: ur-wg at ogf.org Subject: [UR-WG] Reminder: Telcon meeting today 28.02.2012 @ 15:00 CET Hi all, As we postponed last week's meeting one week, the next meeting is today. We'll go through the actions mentioned below and possibly make some new ones. Just to try out something new, I suggest we try the Skype conference room in Lund (which is starting to get stable now). So you can call in to Place: Skype Skype contact: lund.room.1 Phone bridge: +46462884608 cheers, Jon Actions from last meeting: - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the agenda on OGF website - JKN: make public the document - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, grid, local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two use cases: 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the used and unused storage space that I have on a storage resource. - Thus I can see how much headroom I have. All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the requested storage I have on a specific resource and the allocated/reserved resources I have on that resource. - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently have only 80TB at my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required -- Scanned by iCritical. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From andrea.cristofori at cnaf.infn.it Tue Feb 28 05:24:09 2012 From: andrea.cristofori at cnaf.infn.it (Andrea Cristofori) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 11:24:09 +0100 Subject: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 CET In-Reply-To: <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF26904810@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> References: <4F315225.1030105@cnaf.infn.it> <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF268F9A11@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> <201202211847.52397.mike.jones@manchester.ac.uk> <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF26904810@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4F4CAB49.9070508@cnaf.infn.it> Hi John, I think there were at least two of us that understood that some sort of integral was needed. In fact after the discussion on integral vs sampling we moved on the discussion of timeduration vs validduration. For me it was now clear that we moved in this direction. This allows a single record to give all the information we need on the storage usage. Andrea On 02/28/2012 10:58 AM, john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk wrote: > Mike, I think you are way out of line here. As long ago as Munich OGF we discussed time integrals for UR and I thought we reached a consensus (well maybe everyone except you) that we could not ask storage systems to start evaluating integrals of storage usage for the use of UR. They don't do it and we would be asking them to implement journaling or to recalculate usage at every file interaction (or at least write/modify/delete). Just not on. > > I thought we all understood that this is a compromise for the pragmatic purpose of getting a UR soon that can be implemented in the real world. You seem to enjoy the tautological discussion of what accounting should be in the theoretical world. I just want to start writing records tomorrow, if not today. > > In the longer term maybe we make requirements against storage systems that they implement integrals as well as user level and i/o accounting. > > For now can we concentrate on agreeing something that can be implemented. > > John > > PS I'll try to call in. I'm in Taipei. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mike Jones [mailto:mike.jones at manchester.ac.uk] >> Sent: 21 February 2012 18:48 >> To: Gordon, John (STFC,RAL,ESC) >> Cc: andrea.cristofori at cnaf.infn.it; j.k.nilsen at fys.uio.no; ur- >> wg at ogf.org >> Subject: Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, >> 15:00 CET >> >> >> John, >> >> I always come back to time integration because once the record is >> written it >> cannot be misinterpreted; it is by definition correct even if it is not >> accurate [that is important]. I understand the inaccuracies of >> sampling, but >> the rules of said sampling are specific to the resource, are probably >> restricted by tooling and must ultimately form part of their service >> description. >> >>> Once one has a collection of records then different grids, projects, >>> infrastructures may apply different procedures. >> It is precisely this variation that I am trying to eliminate. Resource >> consumers and providers are the primary entities concerned with >> generation and >> consumption of URs. Grids, brokering systems, infrastructures need not >> ever be >> present and as such may make only secondary use of these records, if >> permitted. It should certainly not be these secondary relying parties >> that >> interpret these data with assumptions, for instance, on how regularly a >> record >> was cut. >> >> >> If you insist on having usage records only define an instantaneous >> value then >> it becomes difficult to understand how much the resource was used: >> You then have 3 choices to retrieve useful information: >> 1, to requires an infinite set of instantaneous URs [clearly stupid] >> 2, to gain the set of all URs produced and assumes static between each >> [requires complex safeguards], >> 3, rely on the grid infrastructure, that it has some universal way of >> interpreting this [wrong domain: assumes infrastructure policy, e.g. >> set by >> EGI not OGF]. >> >> In conclusion, >> UR must be able to cope with both sampled data and known (continuous) >> data >> usage. It must be expressed within the usage record so it cannot in >> itself be >> taken out of context. It must therefore contain integrated usage data. >> >> I have, up until now, attempted realise what I think you require as >> incidental >> information extra to usage but I am rapidly coming to the conclusion >> that what >> you really want is an allocation record not a usage record. An >> allocation >> record would allow you to subsequently generate a usage record given a >> set of >> sampling rules. >> >> Mike >> >> On Tuesday 21 February 2012 14:07:07 john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk wrote: >>> Mike, you keep coming back to time integration. I think that once we >>> decided on sampling rather than evaluating integrals then all we have >> is a >>> series of observations and there are a variety of conclusions we can >> draw >>> from them. None of them contain the word ?always? since we can never >> know >>> what happens between observations. >>> >>> Once one has a collection of records then different grids, projects, >>> infrastructures may apply different procedures. I am not against the >>> durationtime/elapsedtime argument but I won?t be attempting to >> construct >>> time integrals from it. I will not be treating periods of time not >> covered >>> by records as unused or empty space. I will be calculating >> min/max/mean >>> over a time period with perhaps some weighting if the end-user >> projects or >>> sites feel that this isn?t the full story. I might come back and >> propose a >>> summary UR for passing this information around. I think that for many >>> people desperate for storage accounting these simple metrics will be >>> enough. If they are not then we can reconvene and change/extend the >> UR. >>> John >>> >>> From: Mike Jones via mobile [mailto:mike.jones at manchester.ac.uk] >>> Sent: 21 February 2012 10:56 >>> To: Gordon, John (STFC,RAL,ESC); andrea.cristofori at cnaf.infn.it; >>> j.k.nilsen at fys.uio.no Cc: ur-wg at ogf.org >>> Subject: Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, >> 15:00 >>> CET >>> >>> To follow up on John's WLCG usecase: I agree that VO space allocated >> over a >>> period of time _is_ a usage. BUT VO allocation at any instant is not. >> That >>> said, the dynamics of any allocation/usage needs to be recorded to be >> able >>> to answer the question "over period X did the allocation always >> satisfy: >>> instantaneous_storage( used+available)> N (dimension:bytes)?" John, >> does >>> that last clause satisfy WLCG? >>> >>> Mike >>> -- >>> Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. >>> john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk wrote: >>> I?ll be in Taiwan next week UTC+8 so I may or may not attend. Depends >> if >>> anything official is happening that evening and if I can stay awake >> and if >>> Skype works. >>> >>> I?ll add the WLCG storage use case to the wiki before then. I must >> stress >>> that this is important to WLCG and that we consider space allocated >> to a >>> VO as ?usage? as it is not available to others and is to be recorded >> just >>> like space occupied by files. i.e. Not monitoring any more than >> recording >>> the existence of files in monitoring. >>> >>> John >>> >>> >>> From: ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org [mailto:ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org] On Behalf >> Of >>> Andrea Cristofori Sent: 21 February 2012 08:15 >>> To: Jon Kerr Nilsen >>> Cc: ur-wg at ogf.org >>> Subject: Re: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, >> 15:00 >>> CET >>> >>> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> Sorry for the short notice but neither I or Jon can make it to today >> phone >>> conference. We would like then to postpone it to next week (same day, >> same >>> time). About today actions Jon already published the document and I >> got an >>> answer for the slot at OGF: >>> >>> http://www.ogf.org/gf/event_schedule/index.php?id=2413 >>> >>> Again apologies. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Andrea >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 02/21/2012 09:08 AM, Jon Kerr Nilsen wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> As John AK just reminded me, the next phone meeting is today. We'll >> go >>> through the actions mentioned below and possibly make some new ones. >> Just >>> to try out something new, I suggest we try the Skype conference room >> in >>> Lund (which is starting to get stable now). So you can call in to >>> >>> Place: Skype >>> Skype contact: lund.room.1 >>> Phone bridge: +46462884608 >>> >>> cheers, >>> Jon >>> >>> On 7. feb. 2012, at 17:32, Andrea Cristofori wrote: >>> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> Most of the phone conference has been focused on the comments on the >> use >>> cases provided by John AK. We commented directly inline on the wiki. >> Feel >>> free to add more Use cases if not present. We will comment them >> during >>> next phone conference. We also agreed in asking for a second time >> slot >>> during OGF (if possible the same day) and divide the agenda in two >> parts >>> and JKN will look for information on how to make the document he >>> circulated the 25th public. The actions for next meeting are the >>> following: >>> >>> - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the >> agenda on >>> OGF website - JKN: make public the document >>> - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, grid, >>> local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) >>> >>> >>> >>> Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two use >> cases: >>> 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the used and >> unused >>> storage space that I have on a storage resource. - Thus I can see how >> much >>> headroom I have. >>> All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required >>> >>> 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the requested >> storage I >>> have on a specific resource and the allocated/reserved resources I >> have on >>> that resource. - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently >> have >>> only 80TB at my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). All: seems to be >> more >>> monitoring Comments from John are required >>> >>> >>> Cheers >>> Andrea >>> -- >>> ur-wg mailing list >>> ur-wg at ogf.org >>> https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> ur-wg mailing list >>> >>> ur-wg at ogf.org >>> >>> https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Andrea Cristofori >>> >>> INFN-CNAF >>> >>> Viale Berti Pichat 6/2 >>> >>> 40127 Bologna >>> >>> Italy >>> >>> Tel. : +39-051-6092920 >>> >>> Skype: andrea-cnaf >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Scanned by iCritical. -- Andrea Cristofori INFN-CNAF Viale Berti Pichat 6/2 40127 Bologna Italy Tel. : +39-051-6092920 Skype: andrea-cnaf From jkennedy at rzg.mpg.de Tue Feb 28 08:06:03 2012 From: jkennedy at rzg.mpg.de (john alan kennedy) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 14:06:03 +0100 Subject: [UR-WG] Reminder: Telcon meeting today 28.02.2012 @ 15:00 CET In-Reply-To: <90CFA16C-CAF2-4BFE-99E6-28E6F5B1FFF5@fys.uio.no> References: <90CFA16C-CAF2-4BFE-99E6-28E6F5B1FFF5@fys.uio.no> Message-ID: <4F4CD13B.50908@rzg.mpg.de> Hi Jon, I'll try to join. I have another meeting at 14:30 but I hope I can leave early. I didn't finish my homework but I did learn a few things... johnk p.s. I am trying to finish an example grid UR now in the next 25 mins - don't hold your breath. On 02/28/2012 10:25 AM, Jon Kerr Nilsen wrote: > Hi all, > > As we postponed last week's meeting one week, the next meeting is > today. We'll go through the actions mentioned below and possibly make > some new ones. Just to try out something new, I suggest we try the > Skype conference room in Lund (which is starting to get stable now). > So you can call in to > > Place: Skype > Skype contact: lund.room.1 > Phone bridge: +46462884608 > > cheers, > Jon > > Actions from last meeting: > > - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the > agenda on OGF website > - JKN: make public the document > - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, grid, > local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) > > > > Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two use cases: > > 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the used and unused > storage space that I have on a storage resource. > - Thus I can see how much headroom I have. > > All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required > > 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the requested > storage I have on a specific resource and the allocated/reserved > resources I have on that resource. > - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently have only > 80TB at my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). > > All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required > > > -- > ur-wg mailing list > ur-wg at ogf.org > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg -- +------------------------------------------------------------+ |Dr. John Alan Kennedy Rechenzentrum Garching (RZG) | |Mail: jkennedy at rzg.mpg.de Boltzmannstrasse 2 | |Phone: +49 89 3299 2694 85748 Garching | |Fax: +49 89 3299 1301 | +------------------------------------------------------------+ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ralph.mueller-pfefferkorn at tu-dresden.de Tue Feb 28 08:11:13 2012 From: ralph.mueller-pfefferkorn at tu-dresden.de (Ralph Mueller-Pfefferkorn) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 14:11:13 +0100 Subject: [UR-WG] Reminder: Telcon meeting today 28.02.2012 @ 15:00 CET In-Reply-To: <90CFA16C-CAF2-4BFE-99E6-28E6F5B1FFF5@fys.uio.no> References: <90CFA16C-CAF2-4BFE-99E6-28E6F5B1FFF5@fys.uio.no> Message-ID: <4F4CD271.1030208@tu-dresden.de> Hi all, I added a local example to the Wiki. Cheers, Ralph Jon Kerr Nilsen wrote on 28.02.2012 10:25: > Hi all, > > As we postponed last week's meeting one week, the next meeting is today. > We'll go through the actions mentioned below and possibly make some new > ones. Just to try out something new, I suggest we try the Skype > conference room in Lund (which is starting to get stable now). So you > can call in to > > Place: Skype > Skype contact: lund.room.1 > Phone bridge: +46462884608 > > cheers, > Jon > > Actions from last meeting: > > - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the agenda > on OGF website > - JKN: make public the document > - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, grid, > local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) > > > > Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two use cases: > > 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the used and unused > storage space that I have on a storage resource. > - Thus I can see how much headroom I have. > > All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required > > 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the requested storage I > have on a specific resource and the allocated/reserved resources I > have on that resource. > - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently have only 80TB at > my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). > > All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required > > > -- > ur-wg mailing list > ur-wg at ogf.org > https://www.ogf.org/mailman/listinfo/ur-wg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 4751 bytes Desc: S/MIME Kryptografische Unterschrift URL: From mike.jones at manchester.ac.uk Tue Feb 28 08:19:13 2012 From: mike.jones at manchester.ac.uk (Mike Jones) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 13:19:13 +0000 Subject: [UR-WG] Actions for next phone meeting on 21.02.2012, 15:00 CET In-Reply-To: <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF26904810@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> References: <4F315225.1030105@cnaf.infn.it> <201202211847.52397.mike.jones@manchester.ac.uk> <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF26904810@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> Message-ID: <201202281319.18702.mike.jones@manchester.ac.uk> John, The only contentious difference between what you are arguing for and what I am arguing for is that in your case you require the grid to perform the interpolation. I argue that the grid, as one relying party, is _not_ the best place for this, as URs may go anywhere. If a document bearing only the state of the system at an instant in time does not go into the system with the logic to interpret that data (i.e. the algorithm and the sampling rates) then those documents are worthless. Therefore, I hold to my opinion that any interpolation must be done at the UR creation point (i.e. in the domain of the resource provider) regardless of whether their storage system has journalling, relies upon sampling or employs whatever alternative means to arrive at an integrated value. In this light I do not believe your argument has any weight stating that it is too difficult to supply an integral value when, at a bear minimum, the resource provider can perform locally the same algorithm that you would have the accounting system perform remotely. Further: Assuming sampling, the storage system has better indicators of how its facility is used. It will therefore be in a better place to increase sampling rates and adjust the algorithm used to achieve more accurate usage values should it need to do so. > Mike, I think you are way out of line here. As long ago as Munich OGF we > discussed time integrals for UR and I thought we reached a consensus (well > maybe everyone except you) that we could not ask storage systems to start > evaluating integrals of storage usage for the use of UR. They don't do it > and we would be asking them to implement journaling or to recalculate > usage at every file interaction (or at least write/modify/delete). Just > not on. I do not believe I am "way out of line". I am not the only person to have the view that integrated values are a requirement of a definition of usage. The following people were at the Munich meeting: Gordon, John - STFC Kennedy, John - Rechenzentrum Garching (RZG) Keskrand, Kalle - EENet Kretzschmar, Michael - MNM-Team Maier, Andreas - LRZ Garching Raitviir, T????nu - EENet Reetz, Johannes - Max-Planck-Institut f?r Plasmaphysik URBAH, Etienne - LAL, Univ Paris-Sud, IN2P3/CNRS Wolfrat, Jules - SARA I believe Etienne also shares my view strongly about integrals vs instantaneous values. I was not able to attend UR-WG in Munich as it clashed with security sessions. I am sorry for this. I believed you had a reasonable understanding of what would constitute a storage usage record. At that time I was happy to leave it at that. > I thought we all understood that this is a compromise for the pragmatic > purpose of getting a UR soon that can be implemented in the real world. I cannot find minutes of that meeting only the preprepared slides. The slides do not (in fairness as they were probably written prior to discussion cannot) support that statement of compromise. > You seem to enjoy the tautological discussion of what accounting should be > in the theoretical world. I just want to start writing records tomorrow, > if not today. Please leave the rhetorical aspersions out. My "Tautological discussion" as you put it is not so. I repeat myself merely to put across the same argument in different words so as to help you and the group understand where I'm coming from. -- I have not yet heard a counter argument strong enough to make me put-up and shut-up. > > In the longer term maybe we make requirements against storage systems that > they implement integrals as well as user level and i/o accounting. > > For now can we concentrate on agreeing something that can be implemented. Any of this can be implemented and easily. And as I understand UR v1 should be sufficient for your needs as it stands. Mike -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2787 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mike.jones at manchester.ac.uk Tue Feb 28 08:21:57 2012 From: mike.jones at manchester.ac.uk (Mike Jones) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 13:21:57 +0000 Subject: [UR-WG] Reminder: Telcon meeting today 28.02.2012 @ 15:00 CET In-Reply-To: <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF26904858@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> References: <90CFA16C-CAF2-4BFE-99E6-28E6F5B1FFF5@fys.uio.no> <577D33CF5BA3E44DBEF21A1C0153A8CF26904858@EXCHMBX01.fed.cclrc.ac.uk> Message-ID: <201202281322.02026.mike.jones@manchester.ac.uk> Do I understand from this that your wish is to use usage records to populate local BDII/MDS information systems with current status information which adheres to the Glue schema? If that is the case then surely status information fed directly into the BDII/GRIS infrastructure is the better approach. If system snapshots are taken for the generation of URs then why not use this data directly to populate BDII/GRIS, send status data their way and at the same time create URs and send usage data to the systems the rely upon URs; rather than encode as UR then decode UR to insert into BDII/GRIS/GIIS. Or have I missed something? Mike On Tuesday 28 February 2012 10:05:41 john.gordon at stfc.ac.uk wrote: > In this document you will find the WLCG Requirement defined. I won't have > time to transcribe it to the wiki before today's meeting. > > https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/pub/LCG/WLCGCommonComputingReadinessChallenges/ > WLCG_GlueSchemaUsage-1.8.pdf > > From: ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org [mailto:ur-wg-bounces at ogf.org] On Behalf Of Jon > Kerr Nilsen Sent: 28 February 2012 09:26 > To: ur-wg at ogf.org > Subject: [UR-WG] Reminder: Telcon meeting today 28.02.2012 @ 15:00 CET > > Hi all, > > As we postponed last week's meeting one week, the next meeting is today. > We'll go through the actions mentioned below and possibly make some new > ones. Just to try out something new, I suggest we try the Skype conference > room in Lund (which is starting to get stable now). So you can call in to > > Place: Skype > Skype contact: lund.room.1 > Phone bridge: +46462884608 > > cheers, > Jon > > Actions from last meeting: > > - AC: Ask for another session the same day at OGF and update the agenda on > OGF website - JKN: make public the document > - All: write some examples for the different use cases (minima, grid, > local, etc.) (Ralph local, JAK Grid/dCache) > > > > Especially for John Gordon: can you please comment on those two use cases: > > 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the used and unused > storage space that I have on a storage resource. - Thus I can see how much > headroom I have. > All: seems to be more monitoring Comments from John are required > > 1. As a project I would like to be able to view the requested storage I > have on a specific resource and the allocated/reserved resources I have on > that resource. - Thus I can see I asked for 100TB and I currently have > only 80TB at my disposal (of which i am using 50TB). All: seems to be more > monitoring Comments from John are required -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2787 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mike.jones at manchester.ac.uk Tue Feb 28 13:12:57 2012 From: mike.jones at manchester.ac.uk (Mike Jones) Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2012 18:12:57 +0000 Subject: [UR-WG] Added wiki info as discussed in meeting Message-ID: <201202281813.02076.mike.jones@manchester.ac.uk> Folks, I've published a first stab at a section entitled: Storage Accounting with Sampling/Monitoring in the wiki as per action from today's skype call. https://forge.ogf.org/sf/wiki/do/viewPage/projects.ur-wg/wiki/StorageSensorSampling The notes section also there and I've put in a few starters. Mike -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2787 bytes Desc: not available URL: