<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">A few more comments:</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial"><i>"A point of uncertainty occurs in
the data when there is more than one component that might occur at that
point. "</i></font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">The component (later you use the word construct
- we should be consistent) is something in the model, not something in
the data. How about:</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial"><i>"A point of uncertainty occurs in
the data when the data at that point may correspond to one of several constructs
in the model."</i></font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">A choice may also contain a model group,
not just an element.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">An unordered sequence may also contain a
model group, not just an element.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">Not sure it affects your wording, but a floating
element can have dimensionality and if it does the repeats do not have
to be contiguous. </font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Regards<br>
<br>
Steve Hanson<br>
Programming Model Architect, WebSphere Message Brokers,<br>
OGF DFDL WG Co-Chair,<br>
Hursley, UK,<br>
Internet: smh@uk.ibm.com,<br>
Phone (+44)/(0) 1962-815848</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">From:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">DFDL <mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com></font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">To:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Tim Kimber/UK/IBM@IBMGB</font>
<tr>
<td valign=top><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Cc:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">"dfdl-wg@ogf.org" <dfdl-wg@ogf.org></font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Date:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">06/10/2009 23:33</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Subject:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Re: [DFDL-WG] Parsing Rules for resolving
points of uncertainty</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Sent by:</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org</font></table>
<br>
<hr noshade>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=3>I am not sure about schema def errors caught at runtime.
I think these are more serious and shouldn't cause backtracking. I don't
think they should just convert to processing errors. </font>
<br>
<br><font size=3>Consider that some dfdl implementarions may not detect
anything until runtime. </font>
<br><font size=3> </font>
<br><font size=3><br>
...mikeb</font>
<br>
<br><font size=3><br>
On Oct 6, 2009, at 5:44 PM, Tim Kimber <</font><a href=mailto:KIMBERT@uk.ibm.com><font size=3 color=blue><u>KIMBERT@uk.ibm.com</u></font></a><font size=3>>
wrote:<br>
</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
- I'd like to see a version in which the comments are addressed and removed.</font><font size=3>
</font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
- typo in para 1 : 'neatest'</font><font size=3> </font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
- 'A point of uncertainty is caused'. Probably better to say that it is
'opened' or 'started'.</font><font size=3> </font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
- para which begins 'For an optional element' has a repeated phrase towards
the end.</font><font size=3> </font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
- I was assuming that any processing error, of any kind, relating to any
physical region, would cause backtracking to the nearest point of uncertainty.
<br>
If there is any set of processing errors that *doesn't* cause backtracking,
that set should be described in this doc.</font><font size=3> </font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
- Should have a statement about how validation errors affect points of
uncertainty. I'm assuming that they don't ( either the parse is immediately
stopped by the host application, or the validation error is ignored)</font><font size=3>
</font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
- Should have a statement about how schema definition errors, if detected
by the DFDL parser, affect points of uncertainty. I'm assuming that they
are treated exactly like a processsing error, and cause backtracking to
occur in the normal way.</font><font size=3> <br>
</font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
regards,<br>
<br>
Tim Kimber, Common Transformation Team,<br>
Hursley, UK<br>
Internet: </font><a href=mailto:kimbert@uk.ibm.com></a><a href=mailto:kimbert@uk.ibm.com><font size=2 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u>kimbert@uk.ibm.com</u></font></a><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
Tel. 01962-816742 <br>
Internal tel. 246742</font><font size=3><br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td width=23%><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">From:</font><font size=3>
</font>
<td width=76%><a href="mailto:dfdl-wg-request@ogf.org"><font size=1 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u>dfdl-wg-request@ogf.org</u></font></a><font size=3>
</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">To:</font><font size=3>
</font>
<td><a href="mailto:dfdl-wg@ogf.org"><font size=1 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u>dfdl-wg@ogf.org</u></font></a><font size=3>
</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Date:</font><font size=3>
</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">06/10/2009 18:18</font><font size=3>
</font>
<tr valign=top>
<td><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Subject:</font><font size=3>
</font>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif">dfdl-wg Digest, Vol 38, Issue 2</font></table>
<br><font size=3><br>
</font>
<hr noshade><font size=3><br>
<br>
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of dfdl-wg digest..."<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. DFDL Specification draft v1.036 available (Alan Powell)<br>
2. Parsing Rules for resolving points of uncertainty V2 (Alan Powell)</font></tt>
<div align=right dir=rtl>
<br><font size=2 color=#800080 face="sans-serif"><br>
<br>
----- Message from Alan Powell <</font><a href=mailto:alan_powell@uk.ibm.com><font size=2 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u>alan_powell@uk.ibm.com</u></font></a><font size=2 color=#800080 face="sans-serif">>
on Tue, 6 Oct 2009 14:46:36 +0100 -----</font><font size=3> </font>
<table dir=rtl>
<tr>
<td>
<div align=left dir=rtl><font size=3><b>To:</b></font></div>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><a href="mailto:dfdl-wg@ogf.org"><font size=3 color=blue><u>dfdl-wg@ogf.org</u></font></a></div>
<tr>
<td>
<div align=left dir=rtl><font size=3><b>Subject:</b></font></div>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=3>[DFDL-WG] DFDL Specification draft
v1.036 available</font></div></table>
<div align=right dir=rtl>
<br>
<div align=right dir=rtl>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
<br>
Draft 036 of the DFDL Specification V1 is available but unfortunately sourceforge
seems to be having problems again so I cannot upload it. If you need a
copy please send me an email.</font><font size=3> </font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
<br>
Alan Powell<br>
<br>
MP 211, IBM UK Labs, Hursley, Winchester, SO21 2JN, England<br>
Notes Id: Alan Powell/UK/IBM email: </font><a href=mailto:alan_powell@uk.ibm.com><font size=2 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u>alan_powell@uk.ibm.com</u></font></a><font size=2 face="sans-serif">
<br>
Tel: +44 (0)1962 815073
Fax: +44 (0)1962 816898</font><font size=3><br>
</font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
</font><font size=3><br>
<br>
</font>
<hr>
<div align=right dir=rtl>
<p><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><i>Unless stated otherwise above:<br>
IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number
741598. <br>
Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6
3AU</i></font><font size=3> </font>
<div align=right dir=rtl>
<p><font size=3><br>
<br>
</font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
</font>
<div align=right dir=rtl>
<p><font size=2 color=#800080 face="sans-serif"><br>
<br>
----- Message from Alan Powell <</font><a href=mailto:alan_powell@uk.ibm.com><font size=2 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u>alan_powell@uk.ibm.com</u></font></a><font size=2 color=#800080 face="sans-serif">>
on Tue, 6 Oct 2009 18:16:59 +0100 -----</font><font size=3> </font>
<table dir=rtl>
<tr>
<td>
<div align=left dir=rtl><font size=3><b>To:</b></font></div>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><a href="mailto:dfdl-wg@ogf.org"><font size=3 color=blue><u>dfdl-wg@ogf.org</u></font></a></div>
<tr>
<td>
<div align=left dir=rtl><font size=3><b>Subject:</b></font></div>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=3>[DFDL-WG] Parsing Rules for resolving
points of uncertainty V2</font></div></table>
<div align=right dir=rtl>
<br>
<div align=right dir=rtl>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
<br>
Updated proposal based on comments</font><font size=3> <br>
<br>
</font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
<br>
<br>
Alan Powell<br>
<br>
MP 211, IBM UK Labs, Hursley, Winchester, SO21 2JN, England<br>
Notes Id: Alan Powell/UK/IBM email: </font><a href=mailto:alan_powell@uk.ibm.com><font size=2 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u>alan_powell@uk.ibm.com</u></font></a><font size=2 face="sans-serif">
<br>
Tel: +44 (0)1962 815073
Fax: +44 (0)1962 816898</font><font size=1 color=#800080 face="sans-serif"><br>
<br>
----- Forwarded by Alan Powell/UK/IBM on 06/10/2009 18:15 -----</font><font size=3>
</font>
<table width=100% dir=rtl>
<tr valign=top>
<td width=5%>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">From:</font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<td width=94%>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Steve Hanson/UK/IBM</font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">To:</font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Tim Kimber/UK/IBM@IBMGB</font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<tr>
<td valign=top>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Cc:</font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB,
Suman Kalia/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA, Mike Beckerle <</font><a href=mailto:mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com><font size=1 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u>mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com</u></font></a><font size=1 face="sans-serif">>,
Peter Lambros/UK/IBM@IBMGB, </font><a href=mailto:steve.marting@progeny.net></a><a href=mailto:steve.marting@progeny.net><font size=1 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u>steve.marting@progeny.net</u></font></a><font size=3>
</font></div>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Date:</font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 face="sans-serif">30/09/2009 10:31</font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Subject:</font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Re: Parsing Rules
for resolving points of uncertainty (speculative
parsing)</font></div></table>
<div align=right dir=rtl>
<br><font size=3><br>
<br>
</font>
<hr noshade><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
<br>
Some more comments in here.</font><font size=3> </font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
<br>
Steve copied in as will be discussed on call today.</font><font size=3>
</font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
<br>
[attachment "Resolving Uncertainty v1.doc" deleted by Alan Powell/UK/IBM]
<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
Steve Hanson<br>
Programming Model Architect, WebSphere Message Brokers,<br>
OGF DFDL WG Co-Chair,<br>
Hursley, UK,<br>
Internet: </font><a href=mailto:smh@uk.ibm.com><font size=2 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u>smh@uk.ibm.com</u></font></a><font size=2 face="sans-serif">,<br>
Phone (+44)/(0) 1962-815848</font><font size=3> <br>
</font>
<table width=100% dir=rtl>
<tr valign=top>
<td width=5%>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">From:</font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<td width=94%>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Tim Kimber/UK/IBM</font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">To:</font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Mike Beckerle <</font><a href=mailto:mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com><font size=1 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u>mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com</u></font></a><font size=1 face="sans-serif">></font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<tr>
<td valign=top>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Cc:</font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB,
Suman Kalia <</font><a href=mailto:kalia@ca.ibm.com><font size=1 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u>kalia@ca.ibm.com</u></font></a><font size=1 face="sans-serif">>,
Peter Lambros/UK/IBM@IBMGB, Robert Connolly <</font><a href=mailto:rconnoll@us.ibm.com><font size=1 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u>rconnoll@us.ibm.com</u></font></a><font size=1 face="sans-serif">>,
Steve Hanson/UK/IBM@IBMGB</font><font size=3> </font></div>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Date:</font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 face="sans-serif">28/09/2009 14:20</font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Subject:</font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Re: Parsing Rules
for resolving points of uncertainty (speculative
parsing)</font></div></table>
<div align=right dir=rtl>
<br><font size=3><br>
<br>
</font>
<hr noshade><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
<br>
re: Mike's point, I would suggest</font><font size=3> </font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
- member of a choice group/unordered group/group containing floating elements:
scope of uncertainty is the scope of the element</font><font size=3> </font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
- optional occurrence : parser tries first to parse another occurrence,
and the scope of uncertainty is the scope of the element. Secondly, parser
tries to parse the item following the element ( which may be a group )
and the scope of uncertainty is the scope of that element/group.</font><font size=3>
</font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
<br>
re: Alan's draft, I think the final para could be replaced with the following
two statements:</font><font size=3> </font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
- if a processing error is encountered while parsing an option, the parser
will back up and try the next option. If there are no further options,
the processing error will propagate out to the next enclosing point of
uncertainty.</font><font size=3> </font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
- a dfdl:assert can be used to trigger a processing error. If the expression
evaluates to false, the parser will behave exactly as if a normal processing
error had been encountered.</font><font size=3> </font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
<br>
Wording can probably be improved...</font><font size=3> </font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
<br>
regards,<br>
<br>
Tim Kimber, Common Transformation Team,<br>
Hursley, UK<br>
Internet: </font><a href=mailto:kimbert@uk.ibm.com></a><a href=mailto:kimbert@uk.ibm.com><font size=2 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u>kimbert@uk.ibm.com</u></font></a><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
Tel. 01962-816742 <br>
Internal tel. 246742</font><font size=3><br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<table width=100% dir=rtl>
<tr valign=top>
<td width=5%>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">From:</font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<td width=94%>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Mike Beckerle <</font><a href=mailto:mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com><font size=1 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u>mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com</u></font></a><font size=1 face="sans-serif">></font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">To:</font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Alan Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB</font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<tr>
<td valign=top>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Cc:</font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Steve Hanson/UK/IBM@IBMGB,
Tim Kimber/UK/IBM@IBMGB, Robert Connolly <</font><a href=mailto:rconnoll@us.ibm.com><font size=1 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u>rconnoll@us.ibm.com</u></font></a><font size=1 face="sans-serif">>,
Peter Lambros/UK/IBM@IBMGB, Suman Kalia <</font><a href=mailto:kalia@ca.ibm.com><font size=1 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u>kalia@ca.ibm.com</u></font></a><font size=1 face="sans-serif">></font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Date:</font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 face="sans-serif">25/09/2009 21:53</font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 color=#5f5f5f face="sans-serif">Subject:</font><font size=3>
</font></div>
<td>
<div align=right dir=rtl><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Re: Parsing Rules
for resolving points of uncertainty (speculative
parsing)</font></div></table>
<div align=right dir=rtl>
<br><font size=3><br>
<br>
</font>
<hr noshade><font size=3><br>
<br>
<br>
Some feedback attached. <br>
<br>
We need some notion of the region of uncertainty, so we can discuss where
assertions and discriminators have effect, and so we can say when the uncertainty
ends and we no longer consider backtracking that region just because we
finished without processing error. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Alan Powell <</font><a href=mailto:alan_powell@uk.ibm.com><font size=3 color=blue><u>alan_powell@uk.ibm.com</u></font></a><font size=3>>
wrote: </font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
<br>
Guys (limited distribution initially)</font><font size=3> </font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
<br>
<br>
I have simplified the previous speculative parsing description into a set
of simple rules.</font><font size=3> </font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
<br>
Discussion points</font><font size=3> </font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
1. Deemed to be found rule 1 'All the components
of the option are found' could severely limit the ability to do partial
parsing as it includes everything up to the terminator.</font><font size=3>
</font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
2. Do all/more the processing errors need to
be listed for Not Found rule 3?</font><font size=3> <br>
</font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Alan Powell<br>
<br>
MP 211, IBM UK Labs, Hursley, Winchester, SO21 2JN, England<br>
Notes Id: Alan Powell/UK/IBM email: </font><a href=mailto:alan_powell@uk.ibm.com target=_blank><font size=2 color=blue face="sans-serif"><u>alan_powell@uk.ibm.com</u></font></a><font size=2 face="sans-serif">
<br>
Tel: +44 (0)1962 815073
Fax: +44 (0)1962 816898<br>
</font><font size=3><br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<hr>
<div align=right dir=rtl>
<p><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><i>Unless stated otherwise above:<br>
IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number
741598. <br>
Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6
3AU</i></font><font size=3> </font>
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<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">[attachment "Resolving Uncertainty
v1.doc" deleted by Tim Kimber/UK/IBM] </font>
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<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">[attachment "Resolving Uncertainty
v1.doc" deleted by Steve Hanson/UK/IBM] </font><font size=3><br>
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<p>
<hr>
<div align=right dir=rtl>
<p><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><i>Unless stated otherwise above:<br>
IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number
741598. <br>
Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6
3AU</i></font><font size=3> </font>
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<p>
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<div align=right dir=rtl>
<p><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><i>Unless stated otherwise above:<br>
IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number
741598. <br>
Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6
3AU</i></font><font size=3> </font>
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<p><font size=3><br>
<br>
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[attachment "Resolving Uncertainty v2.doc" deleted by Tim Kimber/UK/IBM]
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<hr><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><i><br>
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<p><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><i>Unless stated otherwise above:<br>
IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number
741598. <br>
Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6
3AU</i></font><font size=3> </font>
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<p><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><i>Unless stated otherwise above:<br>
IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number
741598. <br>
Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6
3AU</i></font>
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