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<p class=MsoNormal><a name=""><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Minor typo correction in
the attached.<o:p></o:p></span></font></a></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Also, in the revised supplement you
suggest that packed nibbles can be specified as<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>packedDecimalSignCodes=”F F F”
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>meaning to force unsigned.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I would prefer to must make this illegal. I.e.,
the 3 nibbles must be distinct.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I’d narrow it further and say that <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I’d prefer not to deal with
specifying the interactions of having a signed number in the infoset but
writing it out the nibble can lose this information.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I suggest adding one more to the list,
i.e., positive sign, negative sign, unsigned ‘sign’, and zero sign.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Normally the zero sign would match the
positive sign, but in this special case where all zeros nibbles is the
representation for zero, you can add a ‘0’ as the specification of
the sign ‘code’ to be used for zero.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>So packedDecimalSignCodes=”C D F C”
is strict<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>packedDecimalSignCodes=”C D F 0”
is this thing that represents zero as all zero nibbles, e.g., signed 5 digit
number would be hex 000000. The strict/lax numberFormatPolicy would then
determine whether all zeros with a “C” e.g., 00000C
would also be tolerated as a zero on input. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p><b><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-weight:bold'>Mike Beckerle | OGF DFDL WG
Co-Chair | CTO | Oco, Inc.</span></font></b><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy'><br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=gray face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:gray'>Tel: 781-810-2100 | <u1:address u2:st="on"><u1:Street u2:st="on"><st1:address
w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on">504 Totten Pond Road</u1:Street></st1:Street>, <u1:City u2:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on">Waltham</u1:City></st1:City> <u1:State u2:st="on"><st1:State w:st="on">MA</u1:State></st1:State>
<u1:PostalCode u2:st="on"><st1:PostalCode w:st="on">02451</u1:PostalCode></u1:address></st1:PostalCode></st1:address>
|</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy'> <a
href="mailto:mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com"><font size=2 color=gray><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:gray'>mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com</span></font></a></span></font><font
size=2 color=gray face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:gray'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org [mailto:dfdl-wg-bounces@ogf.org] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Steve Hanson<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, July 16, 2008
9:08 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> dfdl-wg@ogf.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [DFDL-WG] DFDL Decimal -
final proposal</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'>Here's the revised decimal supplement again for final
approval. Please can we discuss on the call today for inclusion in draft 33.</span></font>
<br>
<br>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'>This
has been updated to reflect the debate below around properties
dfdl:decimalFormat and dfdl:integerFormat (because either could be used with xs:int
and xs:decimal, and at runtime the parser does not know which one to apply). So
dfdl:decimalFormat has been removed, and replaced by dfdl:numberFormat -
defined below. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><i><font size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:Arial;font-style:italic'>Property Name</span></font></i> <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><font size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:Arial;font-style:italic'>Description</span></font></i> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:Arial'>numberFormat</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:Arial'>String</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Valid
values are ‘text’, ‘zoned’, ‘packed’,
‘BCD’, 'twosComplement'</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial'>When
the representation is ‘text’ then the allowable values are
‘text’ and ‘zoned’.</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=1 face=Arial><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial'>When
the representation is ‘binary’ then the allowable values are
‘packed’, ‘BCD’ and 'twosComplement'.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
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</table>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>I'd also like to propose that we rename dfdl:defineNumberFormat to
dfdl:defineTextNumberFormat, to prevent confusion.</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'>The
other change is around the </span></font><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>packed decimal convention, sometimes
used, that zero is indicated by all bytes being hex zero, even though this is
not technically a valid packed decimal number. I had said that on parsing,
whether to tolerate this is governed by the numberCheckPolicy property, and on
unparsing, this convention is not used. That won't work because we are talking
about (binary) packed decimals and numberCheckPolicy is a property within
(text) dfdl:defineNumberFormat. One solution is to move numberCheckPolicy
outside of dfdl:defineNumberFormat and have it apply to both text and binary
numbers. </span></font><br>
<br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>However
it can be observed that numberCheckPolicy is getting rather bloated and is
covering several behaviours. There's yet another behaviour that could be added
- the TX team review want a dfdl:defineNumberFormat property called
numberZeroRep to handle special zero representations. That's fine - but on
parsing whether to allow just the zero rep or both the rep and '0' is a
requirement from TX - which we could accomodate by extensing numberCheckPolicy.
Question is, are we overloading numberCheckPolicy, or is it time to make it
more granular?</span></font> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Regards<br>
<br>
Steve Hanson<br>
Programming Model Architect<br>
WebSphere Message Brokers<br>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Hursley</st1:City>, <st1:country-region
w:st="on">UK</st1:country-region></st1:place><br>
Internet: smh@uk.ibm.com<br>
Phone (+44)/(0) 1962-815848</span></font> <br>
<font size=1 color=purple face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:sans-serif;color:purple'>----- Forwarded by Steve Hanson/UK/IBM on
16/07/2008 12:15 -----</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;font-weight:bold'>Steve Hanson/UK/IBM</span></font></b>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
sans-serif'>09/04/2008 15:44</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>To</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'><mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com></span></font>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>cc</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>dfdl-wg@ogf.org</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Subject</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>RE: Fw: DFDL Decimal - proposal - correcting
wrong attachment</span></font><a
href="Notes://D06ML070/802563ED00496501/38D46BF5E8F08834852564B500129B2C/5BC0C0759EDCE72080257426004D8748">Link</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'>Hi Mike - answers in-line below.</span></font> <font
size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Regards, Steve<br>
<br>
Steve Hanson<br>
Programming Model Architect<br>
WebSphere Message Brokers<br>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Hursley</st1:City>, <st1:country-region
w:st="on">UK</st1:country-region></st1:place><br>
Internet: smh@uk.ibm.com<br>
Phone (+44)/(0) 1962-815848</span></font> <br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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style='width:100.0%'>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;font-weight:bold'>"Mike Beckerle"
<mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com></span></font></b><font size=1
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
sans-serif'>09/04/2008 15:05</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<td valign=top bgcolor=white style='background:white;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=1
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Please
respond to<br>
<mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>To</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Steve Hanson/UK/IBM@IBMGB</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>cc</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'><dfdl-wg@ogf.org></span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Subject</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>RE: Fw: DFDL Decimal - proposal - correcting
wrong attachment</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
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</table>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
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style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Thanks for these clarifications.</span></font> <br>
<font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font> <br>
<font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>Do we have a way to represent “unpacked” decimal
numbers. This is like zoned, except the “zones” are zero instead of
“F” (in ebcdic encodings).</span></font> <br>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><smh>No
we don't. Neither MRM nor TX support that. Have you seen such an example? Is
it encoding sensitive? <br>
</span></font><br>
<font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>Also, can a BCD number have a sign?</span></font> <br>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><smh>What
we are calling a BCD can not have a sign, as far as I know. That's where packed
decimal comes in.</span></font> <br>
<font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font> <br>
<font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>…mikeb</span></font> <br>
<font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Steve Hanson
[mailto:smh@uk.ibm.com] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'><br>
Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, April 09, 2008 10:00 AM<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'><br>
To:</span></b> mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com<b><span style='font-weight:bold'><br>
Cc:</span></b> 'Mike Beckerle'; Alan Powell; Ian W Parkinson<b><span
style='font-weight:bold'><br>
Subject:</span></b> RE: Fw: DFDL Decimal - proposal - correcting wrong
attachment</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
Hi Mike - answers in-line below.</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Regards, Steve<br>
<br>
Steve Hanson<br>
Programming Model Architect<br>
WebSphere Message Brokers<br>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Hursley</st1:City>, <st1:country-region
w:st="on">UK</st1:country-region></st1:place><br>
Internet: smh@uk.ibm.com<br>
Phone (+44)/(0) 1962-815848</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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style='width:100.0%'>
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<td width="43%" valign=top style='width:43.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;font-weight:bold'>"Mike Beckerle"
<mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com></span></font></b><font size=1
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
sans-serif'>09/04/2008 01:43</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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style='width:100.0%;border:outset 3.0pt'>
<tr>
<td width="100%" valign=top bgcolor=white style='width:100.0%;background:
white;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=1
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Please
respond to<br>
<mbeckerle.dfdl@gmail.com></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
<td width="56%" valign=top style='width:56.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=3 cellpadding=0 width="100%"
style='width:100.0%'>
<tr>
<td width="10%" valign=top style='width:10.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>To</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width="89%" valign=top style='width:89.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Steve Hanson/UK/IBM@IBMGB, Alan
Powell/UK/IBM@IBMGB</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>cc</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Ian W Parkinson/UK/IBM@IBMGB, 'Mike Beckerle'</span></font>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Subject</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>RE: Fw: DFDL Decimal - proposal - correcting wrong
attachment</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
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</table>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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style='width:100.0%'>
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<td width="50%" valign=top style='width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
<td width="50%" valign=top style='width:50.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
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<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
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<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'><br>
I prefer one property dfdl:numberFormat, the valid values of which depend on
dfdl:representation</span></font> <font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><br>
<smh>The advantage of two properties is that you can set scoping for text
and binary numbers separately. <font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><br>
</span></font></span></font> <font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><br>
I like the analysis that text formats are ones which depend on encoding, and
not byteOrder, and binary depend on byte order, and NOT encoding.</span></font>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><br>
<smh>Me too.</span></font> <font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><br>
</span></font> <font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><br>
There’s also format specifiers for floating point. Should those also go
on here, be allowed only for representation=”binary”?</span></font>
<font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><br>
<smh>I did think about this, but I think we are better off keeping floats
separate. Otherwise people might think you can declare a logical float to be
rep'd by physical integer. MRM allows this, and I wish it didn't. It also exacerbates
the problem noted above - I couldn't set a default float format, which is
something that would almost certainly never vary within a data stream. <font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><br>
</span></font></span></font> <font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><br>
The rest of the proposal looks fine. I found decimalVirtualPoint an odd name,
but it is clear and obeys the conventions. </span></font><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><br>
<smh>I agree it's a bit odd. An alternative is 'decimalimpliedPlaces'
which uses TX terminology - but that doesn't match the 'V' pattern character we
are proposing in the ICU pattern (which matches COBOL)</span></font> <font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><br>
</span></font> <font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><br>
I was a bit unclear on how do you represent an unsigned packed decimal. This is
common. There is no sign nibble at all. It lets you do an even number of
digits. MMDDYY is commonly this, 3 unsigned packed numbers.</span></font> <font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><br>
<smh>What you have described is dfdl:numberFormat="BCD". An
unsigned packed decimal is dfdl:numberFormat="packed" with the sign
nibble always unsigned, so dfdl:packedDecimalSignCodes="F F F".</span></font>
<br>
<font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'><br>
</span></font> <font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><br>
…mikeb</span></font> <font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><br>
</span></font> <font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><br>
</span></font> <font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><br>
</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'><br>
From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> Steve Hanson [mailto:smh@uk.ibm.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'><br>
Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, April 02, 2008 11:54 AM<b><span style='font-weight:
bold'><br>
To:</span></b> Alan Powell<b><span style='font-weight:bold'><br>
Cc:</span></b> Ian W Parkinson; Mike Beckerle<b><span style='font-weight:bold'><br>
Subject:</span></b> Re: Fw: DFDL Decimal - proposal - correcting wrong
attachment</span></font> <br>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Alan, Ian and myself reviewed this today.</span></font> <font size=2
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
The main issue was that the loss of dfdl:representation="decimal"
means that it is no longer clear when to use dfdl:integerFormat and
dfdl:decimalFormat, because an xs:decimal can have a binary integer rep and an
xs:int can have a binary decimal rep. It was noted that both IBM models (MRM
and TX type tree) handle this by having a single property. I don't want to
re-introduce rep=decimal, I think we shoiuld stick with text (implying encoding
sensitive) and binary (potentially byte order sensitive). Options:</span></font>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
a) One property dfdl:numberFormat with values "text",
"zoned", "packed", "BCD",
"twosComplement", "onesComplement",
"signMagnitude".</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
- "text" and "zoned" when
dfdl:representation="text"</span></font> <font size=2
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
- "packed", "BCD", "twosComplement",
"onesComplement", "signMagnitude" when
dfdl:representation="binary"</span></font> <font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<br>
Number xs:int, xs:decimal
text =>
numberFormat</span></font> <font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<br>
xs:float, xs:double
text =></span></font> <font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<br>
xs:int, xs:decimal
binary =>
numberFormat</span></font> <font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<br>
xs:float
binary => floatFormat</span></font> <br>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
b) Two properties dfdl:textNumberFormat and dfdl:binaryNumberFormat, allowable
enums split as above.</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
- this means the existing dfdl:textNumberFormat property gets renamed to
dfdl:textNumberPattern or dfdl:textNumberScheme</span></font> <font size=2
face=Courier><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier'><br>
<br>
Number xs:int, xs:decimal
text =>
textNumberFormat</span></font> <font size=2 face=Courier><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier'><br>
<br>
xs:float, xs:double
text =>
</span></font> <font size=2 face=Courier><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier'><br>
<br>
xs:int, xs:decimal
binary =>
binaryNumberFormat</span></font> <font size=2 face=Courier><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Courier'><br>
<br>
xs:float
binary => floatFormat</span></font> <font
size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Other suggestions?</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Regards, Steve<br>
<br>
Steve Hanson<br>
WebSphere Message Brokers<br>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Hursley</st1:City>, <st1:country-region
w:st="on">UK</st1:country-region></st1:place><br>
Internet: smh@uk.ibm.com<br>
Phone (+44)/(0) 1962-815848</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<td width="24%" valign=top style='width:24.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;font-weight:bold'>Alan Powell/UK/IBM</span></font></b>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
sans-serif'>28/03/2008 16:45</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=3 cellpadding=0 width="100%"
style='width:100.0%'>
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<td width="9%" valign=top style='width:9.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>To</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td width="90%" valign=top style='width:90.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Steve Hanson/UK/IBM@IBMGB</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>cc</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Ian W Parkinson/UK/IBM@IBMGB,
mbeckerle@oco-inc.com</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Subject</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td valign=top style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Re: Fw: DFDL Decimal - proposal - correcting
wrong attachment</span></font><a
href="Notes://d06ml070/802563ED00496501/38D46BF5E8F08834852564B500129B2C/378267E0649073098025741A004CDBF1">Link</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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style='width:100.0%'>
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<td width="66%" valign=top style='width:66.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
<td width="33%" valign=top style='width:33.0%;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Steve</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Technically seems OK.</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Need quite a bit of editorial work before it can be included in the spec which
I have started.</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
<br>
Alan Powell<br>
<br>
MP 211, IBM <st1:country-region w:st="on">UK</st1:country-region> Labs,
Hursley, <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Winchester</st1:City>, <st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">SO21 2JN</st1:PostalCode>, <st1:country-region w:st="on">England</st1:country-region></st1:place><br>
Notes Id: Alan Powell/UK/IBM email: alan_powell@uk.ibm.com <br>
Tel: +44 (0)1962 815073
Fax: +44 (0)1962 816898</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color="#5f5f5f" face=sans-serif><span
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:sans-serif'>Steve Hanson/UK/IBM</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:sans-serif'>mbeckerle@oco-inc.com</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color="#5f5f5f" face=sans-serif><span
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:sans-serif'>Alan Powell/UK/IBM, Ian W Parkinson/UK/IBM</span></font>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color="#5f5f5f" face=sans-serif><span
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:sans-serif'>28/03/2008 13:59</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 color="#5f5f5f" face=sans-serif><span
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:sans-serif'>Fw: DFDL Decimal - proposal - correcting wrong
attachment</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
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<br>
</span></font><font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Here's an attempt at a revised decimal supplement, that takes into account the
stuff in my mail below.</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
[attachment "ggf-dfdl-supplement-advanced-decimal-properties-v1.0-003.doc"
deleted by Alan Powell/UK/IBM] <br>
<br>
Some discussion points:</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
1) I've removed the representation 'Decimal' - a decimal is either 'Text' or
'Binary'. Property decimalFormat says whether it is text or zoned (for
text) or packed or BCD (for binary). <br>
<br>
2) There's no need for a decimalSigned property, as zoned uses numberPattern
for this, BCD is always unsigned, and packed indicates this via sign code</span></font>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
3) I've added VDP property for BCD and packed - zoned uses numberPattern for
this. However, VDP property is also needed for binary integers - this is
missing from spec. COBOL PIC 99V99 COMP will create an xs:decimal with binary
integer rep, so we need to support this. I suggest we have a single VDP property
that applies to all binary reps that can be used to represent xs:decimal. So my
VDP property gets removed to main spec.</span></font> <font size=2
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
4) The resultant properties are less than before. I'm not sure that a separate
supplement is justified.</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
5) I would like to remove numberCheckPolicy from dfdl:DefineNumberFormat, and
make it a separate property. Two reasons: <br>
- I think the decision to use strict/lax checking is not an attribute of the
number format but more an attribute of the schema as a whole.</span></font> <font
size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
- It means we can control packed decimal sign nibble oddities with the same
property as other strict/lax number checking,</span></font> <font size=2
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Let's review on next OGF WG call.</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Regards, Steve<br>
<br>
Steve Hanson<br>
Programming Model Architect<br>
WebSphere Message Brokers<br>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Hursley</st1:City>, <st1:country-region
w:st="on">UK</st1:country-region></st1:place><br>
Internet: smh@uk.ibm.com<br>
Phone (+44)/(0) 1962-815848</span></font> <font size=1 color=purple
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:purple'><br>
----- Forwarded by Steve Hanson/UK/IBM on 28/03/2008 12:33 -----</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;font-weight:bold'>Steve Hanson/UK/IBM</span></font></b><font
size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
sans-serif'>27/03/2008 15:29</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Mike Beckerle (Work)</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>DFDL Decimal - proposal</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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</span></font><font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Hi Mike</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
I've finally got round to looking at the decimal supplement, and I'd like to
get your opinion on something. The WTX team have been reviewing draft 031 and
had the following observation (actually they had quite a few good ones, and
when they've finished we need to discuss them all on a OGF WG call).</span></font>
<b><font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;
font-weight:bold'><br>
<br>
"13.3. Is a zoned decimal textual or non-textual? If all overpunched
variants result in well-known characters then the data is scannable and
therefore more like a textual field."</span></font></b> <font size=2
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
It turns out that the type hierarchy in TX for decimal looks like below. They
consider Zoned as text as it always consists of reasonable characters and is
subject to encoding conversion, padding, justification, etc. There's a lot of
appeal in that. It's always bothered me a bit that MRM viewed it as a binary
type.</span></font> <font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<br>
Number -> Character -> Decimal (meaning text decimal)</span></font> <font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
Integer (meaning text integer)</span></font> <font size=2
face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
Zoned</span></font> <font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
-> Binary -> Integer (meaning binary
integer)</span></font> <font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
Float</span></font>
<font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
Packed</span></font> <font size=2 face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
BCD</span></font>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Also, their Zoned does not have separate sign option. They point out that a
separate signed Zoned is just a Text decimal. And they are correct. We got the
separate sign thing from MRM, which after some digging turns out to have got it
from the CAM Type Descriptor model, which had no other way of representing a
text decimal number with a separate sign.</span></font> <font size=2
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
As part of my rework of the decimal supplement, I'd like to take both these
into account. The implications are:</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
- Zoned => overpunched only</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
- Zoned decimal can pick up on the textNumberxxx properties, including
textNumberFormat <br>
=> use the numberPattern (ie, ICU pattern) property to
say which end the (overpunched) sign goes</span></font> <font size=2
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
=> can get away without a separate pattern language for
binary decimals, which as you point out has endian-ness issues</span></font> <font
size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
- Binary decimals are packed and BCD</span></font> <font size=2
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
- There are a lot fewer properties for decimals</span></font> <font size=2
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
- dfdl:representation = "text" can have subdivisions - that's not
occurred until now (we could think about making dfdl:representation =
"xml" a subdivision of "text"?)</span></font> <font size=2
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
If you think there is merit in this approach then let me know by return and
I'll see if I can write something up tomorrow.</span></font> <font size=2
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
I'm WAH on +44-1794-340899 if you want to discuss.</span></font> <font size=2
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Your "crazy idea" below is interesting - but I think is a tooling
thought rather than a core spec thing.</span></font> <font size=2
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
(Sorry about call yesterday - I thought I mailed something out a couple of
calls ago about DST mismatch, but perhaps I didn't).</span></font> <font
size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Regards, Steve<br>
<br>
Steve Hanson<br>
Programming Model Architect<br>
WebSphere Message Brokers<br>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Hursley</st1:City>, <st1:country-region
w:st="on">UK</st1:country-region></st1:place><br>
Internet: smh@uk.ibm.com<br>
Phone (+44)/(0) 1962-815848</span></font> <font size=1 color=purple
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:purple'><br>
----- Forwarded by Steve Hanson/UK/IBM on 27/03/2008 15:04 -----</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;font-weight:bold'>Mike
Beckerle/Worcester/IBM@IBMUS</span></font></b> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:
sans-serif'>21/11/2007 15:26</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>To</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Steve Hanson/UK/IBM@IBMGB</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>cc</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>DFDL-Technical-Core, Suman
Kalia/Toronto/IBM@IBMCA</span></font> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right'><font size=1
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>Subject</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=1 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:
7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif'>DFDL Decimal - was Re: DFDL & length
prefixes - proposal</span></font><a
href="Notes://d06ml070/802563ED00496501/38D46BF5E8F08834852564B500129B2C/95CF5EF523B34A158025739A0045C41B">Link</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
</span></font><font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
I think decimal has signed and unsigned variants based on dfdl:decimalSigned boolean.
If this is false then it's unsigned and packedUnsignedRep specifies the sign
nibble used for unsigned. The doc doesn't specify that one can say ""
for this indicating no sign nibble at all. <br>
<br>
I've been rereading the decimal properties supplement and starting v002 of it
based on changes to dfdl:representation in the core spec. This needs a general
clean up. There's errors here in that there is a decimalType="zoned",
or "packed" or "BCD" and also a bcdIsPacked, and bcdUnpackedRep="ebcdic",
which is the same as zoned I think. <br>
<br>
We need there to be one way to express these things. Right now the bias is a
set of orthogonal flags: signed or unsigned, what's the sign nibble for
unsigned, what sign nibbles for signed, packed or unpacked, what's in the zones
- the unused nibbles - (ebcdic, i.e., "F", ascii, i.e.,
"3", or zero - but that's not enough as I've seen data with
"2" in the zones - some non IBM cobol compiler does this.). <br>
<br>
A better choice may be to specify decimalType as a larger enum which includes
most of these properties, so that we don't end up with too much ability to
express variants that have simply never existed. <br>
<br>
A list of the use cases needs to be added to the doc also.</span></font> <font
size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Here's a few:</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
-1234 as expressed as bytes in hex in increasing position order, i.e., LSB
first.</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
packed ibm, signed, D01234</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
zoned ibm, overpunched leading sign D1F2F3F4 (are signs usually leading or
trailing.... I think trailing actually.)</span></font> <font size=2
face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
big endian zoned ascii, ascii-translated overpunched leading sign 4A323334
(yuck - so much for treating decimal as "binary" data).</span></font>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
Here's a crazy idea: I believe there is a set of magic numbers which if you
give me their translations in bytes, I can determine exactly what the encoding
properties are.</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
E.g., if you give me the bytes for +0000, -1234, +789 I believe I can
determine all of the properties.</span></font> <font size=2 face=sans-serif><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
This might be a better way to specify decimal formats. I.e., give me those byte
patterns expressed as hex, and I reverse engineer all the property settings.</span></font>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
e.g., decimalFormat="+0000=C00000-1234=D01234 +789=C789" (signed,
packed, leading sign, padded to even number of nibbles, big endian, zero
carries a sign, "C" is plus, "D" is minus)</span></font> <font
size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
or decimalFormat="+0000=00000000 -1234=D1F2F3F4 +789=C7F8F9" (ebcdic
zoned, leading overpunched sign, big endian, zero is allowed to have zero as
sign and all zero bytes, "C" is plus, "D" is minus)</span></font>
<font size=2 face=sans-serif><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif'><br>
<br>
This may make more sense for the tooling than the DFDL language though. I.e.,
point it at some data and it tries to guess these properties. <br>
<br>
Mike Beckerle<br>
STSM, Architect, Scalable Computing<br>
IBM Software Group<br>
Information Platform and Solutions<br>
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Westborough</st1:City>, <st1:State
w:st="on">MA</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode w:st="on">01581</st1:PostalCode></st1:place><br>
direct: voice and FAX 508-599-7148<br>
assistant: Pam Riordan <br>
priordan@us.ibm.com <br>
508-599-7046</span></font><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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Registered office: <st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">PO Box 41,
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and <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Wales</st1:place></st1:country-region>
with number 741598. <br>
Registered office: <st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">PO Box 41,
North</st1:address></st1:Street> Harbour, <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
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